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04-20-2018 | 12:09 PM

#81

Ray Red

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Jun 2014

Posts: 679

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Squared

I think you need to re-read the question you posted, then re-read my answer in light of your renewed understanding of what you asked.

I do understand what I asked in the first place. I also have trouble believing that a reasonable person, after reading the lawsuit, would have no questions. Apparently you've seen everything in the lawsuit that you think is necessary to prove her case.

04-20-2018 | 02:19 PM

#82

boschpilot

Jumpseat driver

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 73

Likes: 1

From: any available seat

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Squared

Did he rape her or did she rape (commit first degree sexual assault against, whatever) him?

There is simply no shortage of sickos on this forum. She did not rape him. This isn't mad men and you people shouldn't go around acting like it. I'm a white man and if one of my "bros" falls from grace for simply the accusation of such a case I would assume there's at least some credibility to the claim.

04-20-2018 | 05:01 PM

#83

A Squared

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Joined: Sep 2015

Posts: 304

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Red

I do understand what I asked in the first place.

Well, no, you don't, or we wouldn't be having this exchange. Here, I'll lead you through it by the hand,

Here's the question you asked:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Red

If you have read it, can you honestly say that you don’t have any questions about the claims, or the timeline, or missing information that would be very important?

Notice the part I put in bold. That's key. Now, to that question you asked, I answered: "No". As in: "No, I can not honestly say that I do not have questions about the claims ."

You with me now?

04-20-2018 | 05:05 PM

#84

A Squared

Gets Weekends Off

Joined: Sep 2015

Posts: 304

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by boschpilot

There is simply no shortage of sickos on this forum. She did not rape him. This isn't mad men and you people shouldn't go around acting like it.

You apparently don't quite grasp that my question was a hypothetical, not about the allegations at hand.

Here's what I actually posted, not your edited version of what I posted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Squared

What happens when a man and a woman at similar levels of intoxication have consensual sex?Did he rape her or did she rape (commit first degree sexual assault against, whatever) him?

Notice that there is no reference to the Alaska captain and the Alaska fo in the lawsuit. just "a man" and "a Woman".

Quote:

Originally Posted by boschpilot

I'm a white man and if one of my "bros" falls from grace for simply the accusation of such a case I would assume there's at least some credibility to the claim.

Whoa, back up a step. You seem to be saying that an accusation of rape is inherently true. Why is that? Because women never lie?

Last edited by A Squared; 04-20-2018 at 05:16 PM.

04-20-2018 | 05:09 PM

#85

IFlyEm

On Reserve

Joined: Sep 2007

Posts: 164

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by boschpilot

None of us can say for sure if there is or not. If this was just a normal layover and there was nothing that could come back on the accuser then I'd be more inclined to think something happened. However, the accuser stated "nothing is more important to me than my career." Since she was looking at probably being terminated for violating the drinking rules while in probation she would definitely have a viable motive to explain her actions. Did that happen? None of us know. But to me there is more than enough doubt about what happen to just not let one of our own do down in flames for something that can't be proven.

04-20-2018 | 05:11 PM

#86

A Squared

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Joined: Sep 2015

Posts: 304

Likes: 1

Quote:

Originally Posted by A330FoodCritic

Hi Mike,

Since they were scheduled to fly 10-12 hours later, I don't think the CA was that drunk that he couldn't exercise good judgment.

I don't think that you can necessarily draw that conclusion. First, I don't know when they were next scheduled to fly. I've tried to determine that and haven't seen any conclusive information one way or another when their next scheduled flight was. Second, airline crews have, on occasion been way too drunk, far too close to their next flight. It's regrettable but it happens, so saying that XXX had a flight in YY hours so he/she couldn't have been dunk is a stretch.

04-20-2018 | 05:28 PM

#87

boschpilot

Jumpseat driver

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 73

Likes: 1

From: any available seat

Quote:

Originally Posted by IFlyEm

But to me there is more than enough doubt about what happen to just not let one of our own do down in flames for something that can't be proven.

What makes him one of your own? I mean that question sincerely. I don't associate with too many guys who get accused of rape so it's just not a familiar situation to me at all.

04-20-2018 | 05:39 PM

#88

boschpilot

Jumpseat driver

Joined: Mar 2007

Posts: 73

Likes: 1

From: any available seat

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Squared

You apparently don't quite grasp that my question was a hypothetical, not about the allegations at hand.

Here's what I actually posted, not your edited version of what I posted:

Notice that there is no reference to the Alaska captain and the Alaska fo in the lawsuit. just "a man" and "a Woman".

Whoa, back up a step. You seem to be saying that an accusation of rape is inherently true. Why is that? Because women never lie?

Sorry man I will never partially quote you again...I suppose I didn't read your post carefully enough but I thought that it was safe enough to presume you are discussing that case since that's what this thread is about.

Am I saying that she was raped? No, that's a determination for the judicial process and I'd like to stay far away from that as that is something I know very little about. I said that there was likely some credibility to the case such as; we know they were drinking together.

SIC's are known to "comfort" the Captain by joining them for a drink even though it's not a first choice. I'm assuming that's what was going on there. She was new to the company so she had a lot to lose rather than to be getting plastered at a layover on probation. She was actually seen being coerced up to his room and it took about 20min give or take. I am in no place to discuss whether non-consensual sex took place although it very well may have. I can however deduce that she was coerced to drink and then to go up to his room. (If you think that was in any way her decision you're delusional)

That is enough to say that a supervisor is responsible for creating an unprofessional setting and he should pay the price for that. It's probably not his first time but hopefully it will be his last.

04-20-2018 | 05:54 PM

#89

Excargodog

Perennial Reserve

Joined: Jan 2018

Posts: 14,183

Likes: 238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moose

It is truly devastating that Betty Pina and her attorneys are airing allegations in the press and convicting Captain Engelien in the court of public opinion. Frankly it's upsetting anytime due process is subverted. Per my consultation with a legal ethics professor, because Captain Engelien is not a named party in Betty Pina’s lawsuit and has not been charged with a crime, there is no reason why he can’t defend himself against the allegations and share that he passed a lie detector test. Captain Engelien has a “Right-to-Reply” by law. However, it is my understanding that he is being told by Alaska Airline union reps. and mgt. that he can’t talk about the case. Paul Engelien remains loyal to Alaska Airlines and wants to respect what I believe may be an unlawful and unfair gag order. Never-the-less, Captain Engelien is choosing to follow Alaska Airlines' order not to discuss the case and is refraining from making any statements. However, as his legal advocate, the law allows (may even require) me to share factual information that refutes Pina’s allegations if it’s in my client’s best interest.

To that end, On April 11, 2018, my PR rep. issued the attached press release to the media outlets listed in the chart below. So far NONE of the media outlets have released a follow-up story alerting their readers, listeners or viewer of this development. Sadly, it appears that Pina’s drugging and rape allegations, assertion that this is a #MeToo movement issue and lawsuit against Alaska Airlines generates more interest than the fact that Captain Engelien passed a polygraph exam. The exam results directly refute Pina’s allegations that he drugged and raped her. KIRO 7’s Dave Wagner broke Pina’s original story and expressed an interest in covering Captain Engelien’s side of the story only if Captain Engelien would do an in-person, on-camera interview. Without an on-camera interview, it appears Dave Wagner is not interested in updating KIRO 7's story with the polygraph results either. Alaska Airline’s gag order is making it virtually impossible for Captain Engelien to defend himself against Pina’s allegations.

MEDIA NOTIFIED VIA A PRESS RELEASE THAT CAPTAIN ENGELIEN PASSED A POLYGRAPH
Seattle Print/Internet
Seattle Times
Seattle PI
Puget Sound Business Journal
The Stranger
Seattle Radio/TV/Internet
KOMO
KIRO
KING
FOX
Non-Seattle Print/Internet
Spokesman Review
The Oregonian
Anchorage Daily News
LA Times
Dallas Morning News
Chicago Tribune
Tampa Bay Times / St. Pete Times
Boston Globe
Non-Seattle Print/Internet
San Francisco Chronicle / SFGate
Sacramento Bee
Arizona Republic
NY Times
NY Daily News
Washington Post
Atlanta Journal Constitution
Honolulu Star-Advertiser
National TV/Radio/Internet
ABC News and Good Morning America
CBS News and CBS This Morning
NBC News and Today Show
FOX News
International Business Times
Daily Mail
The Independent
FlyerTalk.com
Thepointsguy.com
Thecut.com

Mass Distribution Release
Associated Press (AP Wire)

Because the media doesn’t appear interested in updating their coverage, yesterday I began sending personal emails directly to journalists of select media outlets that covered Pina’s story. I personally introduced myself, notified each journalist/producer that Captain Engelien passed a polygraph and requested that they update their coverage. I have only heard back from the two journalists in bold below. While they have not yet updated their coverage, I’m hopeful they will.

IBEX News
The Seattle Times
ABC News
Newsweek
HeraldNet
Daily Beast
Puget Sound Business Journal
Business Insider
The New York Times
The Washington Post
Mr. Leacock
Mr. Kamb
Ms. Thorbecke and Ms. Ghebremedhin
Mr. Palmer
Mr. Pattison
Ms. Messer
Mr. McIntosh
Mr. Zhang
Ms. Hauser
Ms. Eltagouri

The good news is there’s power in social media. If the mainstream media isn’t interested in covering the full story, I’m hopeful I can get this information out via the power of the internet and social networking. I have included the press release below and hope that you will share this email with your peers and invite them to share it on social media, list-serves and other outlets to the extent they feel comfortable doing so. I’d also like anyone who believes they may have information relevant to this case to contact Investigator Mortensen at [email protected] or myself at [email protected].

Warm regards,

Sheri Pewitt , Attorney
206.941.0009 ph
206.467.3152 fax
[email protected]
www.pewittlaw.com

Still crickets from the mainstream/lame stream/slipstream and even slipshod media regarding this press release. Whether they are just unimpressed by partisan polygraph tests or whether they have their own agenda and have already chosen their side is, I suppose, open to interpretation. Obviously the PR battle has been decidedly one-sided so far.