Was it a good deal?
12-19-2022, 10:30 AM
#281
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Originally Posted by Carebear
Just read your CBA again. You’re right. JetBlue is omitted unless “a new agreement on pay rates is in place.” However your calculation presumes that southwest either can’t get a TA by 9/1 and will be at current rates, and you and others think southwest would agree to something less than $290 which puts them around the same rates as what delta, JetBlue and spirit have put out.
ALPA has been pushing for $330 since last year. I have a feeling top scale captain at all the airlines will be there by 9/1.
ALPA has been pushing for $330 since last year. I have a feeling top scale captain at all the airlines will be there by 9/1.
I'm basing this assessment on what every single SW pilot has told me, both here and in person, about the state of their negotiations and the lack of progress thus far. We're only 9 months from that first look back. This is the problem with an average rate adjustment vs. an actual snap up. We don't automatically bump up to the top rates of the industry and are reliant on everything and everyone else being squared away in hopes of keeping up with our peers.
That's why management signed off on it. It has a low probability of actually coming to fruition until 2024.
If SW signs a new CBA on 9/2/23 with DOS rates equivalent to DAL's DOS+1, well, we're making anywhere from $12-$35/hr less than the other 5 members of our peer group.....womp womp....
But on the bright side, at least the debate about who's on the tail of an Alaska, "Jet", is finally settled...It’s "Tailend Charlie", always bringing up the rear...
Last edited by KnockKnock; 12-19-2022 at 10:51 AM.
12-19-2022, 12:05 PM
#282
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: This side of the dirt.
Posts: 891
Originally Posted by KnockKnock
What bothers me the most about this whole thing, is that a lage group of pilots voted yes based on something they didn't even understand. I hear so many different interpretation of this, Average Rate Adjustment, on the line. Guys tell me it's the thing that pushed them towards a yes vote and when I tell them how it actually works, their faces wrinkle up like they just smelled a fart. We have a great NC and I have nothing but respect for them and the rest of our reps but they dropped the ball on this. They did a terrible job of explaining this provision and our pilots did a terrible job of trying to understand it.
12-19-2022, 02:46 PM
#287
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 670
Big picture.... Whether it's 2023, or 2024, we're gonna get close to what the top 4 are getting eventually, and having to wait an extra year is just a blip in the 15 to 30 year span of the average career. Was it perfect? - no, but I'm pretty sure in the many union surveys, most pilots probably indicated they'd be happy to be in the 300 to 320/hr range. I'd say our union delivered.
That Delta knocked it out of the park is testament that they are the gold standard in this industry. Maybe one day it'll happen, but for now, the reality is that culturally, they, United, and Amercan will never stand for us setting pay rates for the industry. Therefore, no matter how great a rate we negotiate, in their negotiations they are going to argue for higher, and will get it.
That Delta knocked it out of the park is testament that they are the gold standard in this industry. Maybe one day it'll happen, but for now, the reality is that culturally, they, United, and Amercan will never stand for us setting pay rates for the industry. Therefore, no matter how great a rate we negotiate, in their negotiations they are going to argue for higher, and will get it.
12-19-2022, 05:46 PM
#289
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by All Bizniz
Big picture.... Whether it's 2023, or 2024, we're gonna get close to what the top 4 are getting eventually, and having to wait an extra year is just a blip in the 15 to 30 year span of the average career. Was it perfect? - no, but I'm pretty sure in the many union surveys, most pilots probably indicated they'd be happy to be in the 300 to 320/hr range. I'd say our union delivered.
That Delta knocked it out of the park is testament that they are the gold standard in this industry. Maybe one day it'll happen, but for now, the reality is that culturally, they, United, and Amercan will never stand for us setting pay rates for the industry. Therefore, no matter how great a rate we negotiate, in their negotiations they are going to argue for higher, and will get it.
That Delta knocked it out of the park is testament that they are the gold standard in this industry. Maybe one day it'll happen, but for now, the reality is that culturally, they, United, and Amercan will never stand for us setting pay rates for the industry. Therefore, no matter how great a rate we negotiate, in their negotiations they are going to argue for higher, and will get it.
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