OTZ what’s the latest?

 

Just shaking my head at this. "Whether it's 2023 or 2024, we're gonna get close". This sums up the problem here with this group settling. We've gone from the average up will save us, to the average up in 2023 is not a big deal to the average up in 2024 is OK. Who cares about another whole year being further behind by 15-20%.

If that attitude isn't bad enough, it's not being educated on exactly how it works out after our 2nd snap up. Yes, in 9/2024, we'll snap up. But that's our last snap up. We'll go to DAL DOS +1, UAL +1 etc....For a few months. Long time to wait to be on average for it to then slip away.

If what most people see as happening occurs in DAL/UAL/SWA getting new contracts in the next 6 months, months after that 9/2024 snap, we fall further behind as DAL/UAL/SWA go into DOS +2 rates and DOS +3 rates.

As the company men love to say, we'll be up for new negotiations at that time. Ironically, these are the same guys that used the dreaded upcoming "recession" to lock in the rates that obviously were way below market now. One has to ask, which one is it, are we going into a recession or are we going to be on a great bargaining platform in 2024 to get further improvements after falling so far behind again on this current cycle

 

Get off your arm-chair quarterbacking, high horse there now sonny. Don't try to take what I wrote out of context by quoting only one sentence (actually, only a part of the sentence), vs. taking the time to understand my point in its entirety, and then start pontificating about the error of the ways of "the 82" with your sanctimonious self.

I guarantee you, most AS pilots knew exactly what the risk vs. reward were of a YES vs. NO vote, and at the end of the day decided to hedge their bets with the decision that among other things, gets them out from under the dog sheet of a contract they had, as well as most importantly, got the company to acknowledge that our peers for comparison purposes will now include DL, UA, and AA.

Rome was not built in a day..... Big picture.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

 

So you are comparing your (what is then) old contract to their new contract. Yeah, sounds fair. Your contract is 3 yrs, you’re almost 4 months done with DOS. We have DOS+1 and 2. At that point, yes it’s negotiation for a new deal. So this year is ending. NO other major airline got a DOS in 2022 like we did. So of course their DOS will be 2023 and DOS+1 and +2 will be 1 yr further than ours - such is what happens when you get. A new contract one calendar year before others! How is this an argument?



“Same men who locked in rates below market NOW.”

Angry 18% continue being angry. There was no new market until the AS deal was signed. As for your last question, ask the ALPA EFA team. That’s what your dues are for. You had nothing before, zero scope, zilch, nada. This 3 yr package is close to 1 billion dollars in improvements.


If you want Delta pay now, go to airline apps and apply away. Speak with your feet like the ~370 pilots have this year. If not, then there’s no point whining now after a new deal was signed. Give it a rest until the start of the next round of negotiations. It’s counter productive and all you do is raise the blood pressure for no reason. You’re gonna get 17% 401K soon, 318 or higher Sept 1 2023 and definitely more than 331/hr for Sept 2024. It’s gonna work out fine.

 

Our last contract was amendable in 2019 we didn't get a deal until nearly the end of 2022. What makes you think it will be different this time? If there is an economic downturn and a great reduction in passenger demand for flying as you predicted many times, our next contract could get dragged out for years.

 

370 pilots left in what period of time? If annual, that doesn't seem like a sustainable attrition rate when the company only has ~3,300 pilots.

 

I believe YTD. This is the same problem at any pax carrier that isn’t the big 3.

 

How is this a reflection on anything except for how cheap our previous contract was?

 

Shy, I whole heartedly disagree with this sentiment. All issues need to be addressed with this contract at all times. Why would we wait 3 years to shine light on inadequacies? The more we expose the holes, the better we're prepared to patch them for contract '26....errr 7 or 8. Most of the VXers were vocal for 3-4 years AFTER the JCBA was signed and I'm glad they did. It opened a lot of eyes....

Also, stop telling pilots who belive we are worth more, to leave. If everyone that was willing to speak up and demand parity, left, all you'd have remaining are the 92%ers and you'd be flying around for $280/hr right now. Pump your breaks on that ish....
or better yet, everyone that insists on telling anyone who doesn't lap up the company kool-aid to leave, take your own advice and leave this thread and go read a different one.

 

So in your opinion the attrition is sustainable as it is industry standard? And what do you think is driving away all the young talent? Pay, quality of life, bases, wide bodies, all of the above?