Your cheese bill must be really high with all that whine


It’s time to get over it. The 3 yr contract has been signed. Look forward to our new rates Sept 1 for the next two years, and then back to the negotiating table. Until then, no need to raise the blood pressure.

 

Might I ask what are the top quality of life positive benefits seen thus far?


And FWIW, I wasn't even going to apply for Alaska before the contract came out, so in that sense, it was a good deal for recruiting. By being the first out of the gate, AS is currently reaping the benefits while DAL is putting their finishing touches, UA is mired in union infighting and AA is further down the road. That has a value.

 

You, and others, do as much whining about the PILOTS who are displeased with the contract, as the pilots who are displeased, "whine" about the contract. You guys seem to take it personally. As if our displeasure with the company reflects poorly on you and your decision making.

Why does anyone have to get over it? Every single loophole, crack, failure and shortcoming needs to be exposed so as to strengthen our position next round.

That's the purpose of this forum and more specifically this thread. "Was it a good deal", some will say yes, some will say no. Get over it.

 

Ok sure, if you want to air out your issues with items in/not in the contract, that’s one thing. But why so many are so adamant about screwing this place over that they tell everyone not to come here, and to stay far away…

Again you literally make no sense. You want a better contract, which only happens through growth, profits, and pilots coming in the door. Yet you blatantly tell people not to come here. It’s the most idiotic thing i’ve ever seen…

Plus, No one likes being around whiny, negative, complaining people. That’s a fact…

 

First, thanks for steering this away from the pointless name calling. To get to your question, most of the QOL stuff is still coming. Once ADTG is fully implemented the bottom lines will see significant improvement in days off as the formerly 12 hour 3 day trips become 15:45. Right now it's pay only, but not credit. PBS is 16 months away from implementation, and the new reserve system will come sometime between now and then, probably closer to the end. However, some of the reserve QOL stuff like longer call outs and only combining trips at the time of assignments is there now. Double time is available now and scheduling is using it freely if you want to make extra $$.
I would say for most of us the lions share of the QOL stuff isn't particularly visible yet, but it is coming. Commuting is still commuting, but made more bearable by the hotel policy and DH policy. Both of those are currently at the whim of the company currently and subject to being withdrawn at a whim.

 

You clearly haven't been here very long or have any knowledge of the historical relationship between AS management and it's work groups. Everything you write is a proven falsehood.

AS has been one of THE most profitable airlines, in the decade + preceeding covid and is emerging from covid once again as an industry leader. During the great recession, AS stood stronger than all other airlines. Never declaring bankruptcy, only furloughing for spite, not economics and being one of only a few airlines hiring and expanding at times. This airline has generatated profits unseen in the industry.

Yet, even though AS has had incredible balance sheets, they have NEVER offered the pilots anything close to industry leading or even on par with our peers. In fact, they have done the exact opposite. They have historically offered 92% of everyone else. They had Kasher gut the group in 2005 only because the OTHER AIRLINES were being gutted in bankruptcy. Pilots lost houses, wives and livelihoods, not to mention it sent our contract back to the stone age.

In the 10-12 years of record profits (24% and shares hit $101)) and expansion, (East Coast, HI, etc.), management didn't come to the table in 2009, 2013 or the 2017 JCBA and offer a "better contract", nope, they stonewalled us and forced us to swallow another load from the arbitrator.

So, no, a better contract will not show up at our feet because we are experiencing "growth, profits and pilots coming in the door". A better contract will only be offered when people STOP coming here and stop accepting the effing discount. It also helps when pilots STOP spreading the company propaganda.

 

Thank you for the informative response. I'm from Seattle, returning to Seattle and I am intent on raising our children in Seattle. As such, do you or anyone know how probable it is to hold Seattle initially?

Also, can you explain a little more what you meant by the deadhead and hotel policy being on the whim of management?

Lastly, can you help me undersand what it means to combine trips at the time of assignment?

Sorry I'm so helpless at this point, I'm trying my best to learn

 

Seattle should be attainable as a new hire or fairly quickly after that.
The commuter hotels and positive space commutes are only a temporary policy, not in the contract, so that can go away easily. Scheduling would historically keep you out for your entire reserve block by adding flying at the end of every day. If you started a 5 day block of reserve and got called to do a Denver turn, when you got back you would get something added on. Again and again. It would commonly have you doing horrible things to your body clock. Now they can't do that. If they want to put trips together, they have to do it at the time of assignment. It's a significant improvement.

 

Commuter hotels are at least codified in a MOU that can be terminated by either the company or union with 60 days notice. The positive space commutes seem to be on an as required basis. When staffing is tight, as it is now, they seem to be going out of their way to make sure people show and pickup flights. This the inverse of how it was even just a year ago.

I’d say you have a 99 percent chance of getting Seattle as a new hire as long as hiring continues as is.

 

Thank you for the added info, it probably doesn't hurt that I'm relatively old as well. Delta assigns based on last four and I'd go middle of the pack. At Alaska, based on who I interviewed with, I'd go near the top of the batting order. Looking at the last few Delta drops, they haven't even had SEA in their drops. So I'd initially be out of NYC, ATL or at best Detroit/LA. Based on this, I see:


Fly for Delta

Might take 1-2 years to get back to Seattle on the jet that I want
Unlikely to ever be a captain on widebody based on age
Training will always be in Atlanta away from my kids
Pay will be $20-30K more/year

Fly for Alaska

They choose on age, so I will get Seattle immediately
I could a NB captain after 4-5 years if I want to, slightly longer than Delta
Training will always be in Seattle next to my kids
Pay will be $20-30K less/year

Besides pay, I'm assuming some of Delta's quality of life policies are superior to AS in the latest contract proposal.