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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:07 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
The pain, according to flight ops management, wasn't just reserves struggling with their commute.

It was a significant trend of LC reserves who would get a call out, then wait a few hours and call in sick. That's technically legal since you could *hypothetically* get food poisoning or whatever within that 14 hour window. But then it was too late to get another LC there in time.

Again, according to management, FWIW.
That just means they aren't converting enough reserves to short call to cover close in sick calls. I know it's crazy, but reserves wake up not feeling well too. Compound that with the fact that their new model is to staff reserves around 12% and they get what they get.
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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:21 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by word302
That just means they aren't converting enough reserves to short call to cover close in sick calls. I know it's crazy, but reserves wake up not feeling well too. Compound that with the fact that their new staffing model is to staff reserves around 12% and they get what they get.

A pilots use of their sick time is the utilization of an accrued benefit and should be viewed as such by both the pilot group and management. Other work groups are treated like adults and term this benefit “PTO”, which seems to have much less of a negative connotation. Some who communicate with the pilot group regularly even put it in their emails to communicate when they’ll be out on “PTO”. Attempting to control how a pilot uses THEIR accrued benefit and any attempt at influencing the use of said accrued benefit should be viewed as overreach, just the same as if management attempted to influence how you spend your paycheck or invest your 401k savings, and treated as such. Such overreach should be forwarded for ethics review accordingly.
Old 12-03-2025 | 09:28 AM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by word302
That just means they aren't converting enough reserves to short call to cover close in sick calls. I know it's crazy, but reserves wake up not feeling well too. Compound that with the fact that their new model is to staff reserves around 12% and they get what they get.
LCC has been a bit of a disaster. That being the default for reserve means that it only effectively has SC reserves if they bid it, or scheduling converts. The conversions have been a huge problem for QOL, and I think a lack of default SC lines results in more problematic coverage. Already running thinner on reserve coverage compounds this issue big time. Management spins the narrative as people are abusing sick calls, but IMHO if you use IMSAFE, PAVE, cumulative fatigue, etc. that a lot of these sick calls are literally to take a break and reset. Is there abuse? Sure. But when a SC pilot starts a morning RAP calls in sick the day before, it's totally normal and acceptable. A line holder calling out sick 6 hours before a trip is totally normal. A LCC calling in sick 10 hours before a trip after being assigned a trip is somehow the craziest and most unimaginable thing ever for some reason.

I don't fly sick. I use my sick time as intended and I use it how the state of CA (WA and OR are the same) allows me to. If my kid is sick, I am allowed to use sick time. This culture of having to have a sick bank, and to not go below, and to then get a bonus when you retire if you don't use it, creates a culture of pilots showing up sick as a dog to work. That bugs me more than anything...
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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:38 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by MinRest
LCC has been a bit of a disaster. That being the default for reserve means that it only effectively has SC reserves if they bid it, or scheduling converts. The conversions have been a huge problem for QOL, and I think a lack of default SC lines results in more problematic coverage. Already running thinner on reserve coverage compounds this issue big time. Management spins the narrative as people are abusing sick calls, but IMHO if you use IMSAFE, PAVE, cumulative fatigue, etc. that a lot of these sick calls are literally to take a break and reset. Is there abuse? Sure. But when a SC pilot starts a morning RAP calls in sick the day before, it's totally normal and acceptable. A line holder calling out sick 6 hours before a trip is totally normal. A LCC calling in sick 10 hours before a trip after being assigned a trip is somehow the craziest and most unimaginable thing ever for some reason.

I don't fly sick. I use my sick time as intended and I use it how the state of CA (WA and OR are the same) allows me to. If my kid is sick, I am allowed to use sick time. This culture of having to have a sick bank, and to not go below, and to then get a bonus when you retire if you don't use it, creates a culture of pilots showing up sick as a dog to work. That bugs me more than anything...
Delta doesn't seem to have an issue with all pilots starting out on long call. It's only a disaster because of staffing. I wouldn't mind seeing a limit to conversions but would like it to be waiveable so that those of us who live in base can continue to capitalize on conversion pay.
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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:39 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by MrBogardi
So the reason for SFO and LAX reduction is because of sick calls? I missed that part
When I was on reserve at SKW I only got called out if the weather was low and commuters couldn’t get to work. The number of arrivals per hour goes from 60 to 30 if the ceiling is below 1600’ I believe. Other airlines seem to adapt to it. Don’t see why AS can’t.
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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:40 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by word302
That just means they aren't converting enough reserves to short call to cover close in sick calls. I know it's crazy, but reserves wake up not feeling well too. Compound that with the fact that their new model is to staff reserves around 12% and they get what they get.
Of course they could cover it with enough reserves... that costs money, is enough to money to tip the balance as they see it? I suspect their allergic reaction is likely the comparison to other bases. And also maybe they're triggered if they think it's VX people causing the issue (well they can track that if they care).

Is an allergic reaction necessarily good business? Not saying that, just speculating on what's actually driving this.
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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:42 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by GoodJet
When I was on reserve at SKW I only got called out if the weather was low and commuters couldn’t get to work. The number of arrivals per hour goes from 60 to 30 if the ceiling is below 1600’ I believe. Other airlines seem to adapt to it. Don’t see why AS can’t.
Gee, I wonder if that had anything to do with the highly punitive attendance policy and no union protection at OO.
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Old 12-03-2025 | 09:54 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by MinRest
A LCC calling in sick 10 hours before a trip after being assigned a trip is somehow the craziest and most unimaginable thing ever for some reason.
They've made it clear that they believe there's basically abuse occurring. Of course it's going to happen occasionally, like anything else. But it's apparent they think it's happening way to much...

People sitting LC, hoping to not get called, and having no intent to come in if they do.

Commuters get called, realize the loads aren't good so they bang out.

People who get sick in a reserve block, hope they don't get called, then bang out when they do lot easier to do on LC than SC).

And even the occasional LC person who gets called, goes out for Mexican, then has to go call out legit sick. It all adds up.

Originally Posted by MinRest
I don't fly sick. I use my sick time as intended and I use it how the state of CA (WA and OR are the same) allows me to. If my kid is sick, I am allowed to use sick time. This culture of having to have a sick bank, and to not go below, and to then get a bonus when you retire if you don't use it, creates a culture of pilots showing up sick as a dog to work. That bugs me more than anything...
I never see that down south honestly. People either have plenty of bank, don't care if they get the payout, or just don't get sick. I'm in the later group, but not everyone is so fortunate (especially if you have little kids).
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Old 12-03-2025 | 10:02 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by word302
Delta doesn't seem to have an issue with all pilots starting out on long call. It's only a disaster because of staffing. I wouldn't mind seeing a limit to conversions but would like it to be waiveable so that those of us who live in base can continue to capitalize on conversion pay.
Don't disagree. I think the problem with LCC is a result of other issues. LCC in it of its self is not the issue.
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Old 12-03-2025 | 10:06 AM
  #160  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
They've made it clear that they believe there's basically abuse occurring. Of course it's going to happen occasionally, like anything else. But it's apparent they think it's happening way to much...

People sitting LC, hoping to not get called, and having no intent to come in if they do.

Commuters get called, realize the loads aren't good so they bang out.

People who get sick in a reserve block, hope they don't get called, then bang out when they do lot easier to do on LC than SC).

And even the occasional LC person who gets called, goes out for Mexican, then has to go call out legit sick. It all adds up.



I never see that down south honestly. People either have plenty of bank, don't care if they get the payout, or just don't get sick. I'm in the later group, but not everyone is so fortunate (especially if you have little kids).
It's higher because every other base is basically an opposite flip of commuter/local. At one point, almost every base was 80% local pilot except SFO, which was 80% commuter. Locals in SEA on LCC getting converted every other day isn't as big of an impact as the majority of them are locals.

I am not saying SAN will see the exact same percentage of this, but if the commuter percentage is higher than SEA, sick calls will be higher than SEA, I guarantee it.
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