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Alaska Air Hiring

Old 03-12-2019, 09:05 AM
  #4021  
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Originally Posted by OTZeagle1 View Post
he has come on here and only proved my point. They have the exact same duty rigs the only difference is a 5:15 AVERAGE daily and we have a 5:00 hr average duty. Yes theirs is slightly better. Their pay is 6% higher, their bonus is about 6% more. It is most certainly one of the best pilot jobs in the country. Their duty rigs are almost identical to ours! Your regional had better work rules right?

A friend 717 LAX FO 15 days off 79 hours of credit at Delta

Old Timers? My age would shock you. I still have more then two decades left at AS, I was fortunate to be hired very young
OTZ, brother, I understand you’re content with what we have now because you’re able to mold the contract to fit your needs. I try hard to do the same. I also understand that the constant complaining is fatiguing, especially when it devolves into an us vs. them back and forth with no end in sight. However, you’ve got to at least try and understand that this contract is lagging and not everyone is able to do what you or I can to make it palatable. Just read the current contract comparison. All the facts are right there. Also, I don’t want to, or think anyone should have to, constantly find the loopholes and work arounds to improve our schedules every month. I don’t want to be looking over my shoulder at those RJ’s, wondering where the high water mark is gonna be.

Were you here pre-Kasher? If so, you already know it can be better. You’ve worked under a better contract. I wasn’t here pre-Kasher but I worked under a line bidding system that sounds similar to what AS had before it was gutted. I know it can be better. We deserve better. We should always be striving to improve this place. As it stands, we’re working under a concessionary contract from 2005 with minimal gains in the last 14 years. Yes, if we put in the work, we can carve out a pretty good QOL but we’ve earned more than that. It shouldn’t just be pretty good for some, it should be great for all.

I guarantee that the Delta pilots aren’t going to sit on their hands and say, “well, we’re done, we got it pretty good so let’s just ride this one to retirement“. They’re going to demand even better! Can you give me one reason why you have not earned a better contract with more days off, more protections and more money? I think I’m every bit as good as DAL, UAL, SWA, AAL pilots and have earned an equal compensation package and QOL. Every one of us here has earned it. The time is now to demand it. I want you to be able buy more houses, more boats, and drink more red stripe because I think you’ve put in the work and earned it. I want our new FO’s to be able to afford to buy houses in our current bases. I want commuters to be able to see their families. This place can be a great airline but we have to recognize our value in this market and stop settling for just o.k.

Last edited by KnockKnock; 03-12-2019 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:09 AM
  #4022  
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Originally Posted by Ala5ka View Post
Your type is literally the reason that Alaskan is so far behind other airlines contracts and work rules.

It is seriously incredible how against improvement you are, you are very selfish.
Thankfully he is just a minority as most Alaska pilots I meet are great people and are just as fed up with the current state of affairs.

Last edited by tomgoodman; 03-12-2019 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Removed insults
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:50 AM
  #4023  
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Originally Posted by echelon View Post
Just curious, is that averaged over the length of the trip, or does that mean you get at least 5:15 each calendar day just for showing up? In other words, Alaska has 5hr min per duty period but all it means is that if you have a trip with 2 duty periods it pays no less than 10hrs. So if you fly 6hrs on day 1 and 4hrs on day 2, the trip pays 10hrs, not 11.

Would the same trip at DL pay 10:30 or 11:15?
It's averaged over the trip, the next push for that part of the contract is to turn it into a minimum day or add a minimum day on top of it. Do you not get anything on a long layover? In our case that would be 10:30, although if it was like the example below I think the disparity would be larger.

A good example is if you have a redeye that leaves at 2300, has a 24 hour layover before coming back the next day. Since it touched the day prior to the red eye the minimum pay is 15:45 even if it was just the two duty periods.

We don't do red-eye turns but we can do them with the leg back as a dhd, which means a minimum 10:15 for the duty period. That kind of flying isn't common though.


It being an average daily rather than min day is a big complaint (although far from the largest) among pilots here so I anticipate something will be done in the next contract.


I think the two biggest drivers of disparity between QOL items between us and Alaska are PBS and reserve rules, but I feel like all seniority levels would benefit to some extent from various areas we have contractually.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:51 AM
  #4024  
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Originally Posted by OTZeagle1 View Post
I get it. You don’t have to live in Seattle. Move 45 minutes south of SeaTac, you will find nice stuff 490-750. Doable for an FO... for the Captains in that same area they can find really nice places 750- 1.2. I am just giving you all honest good advice, this is a solvable problem.
It is a solvable problem. Just not your solution. The solution is a better contract, including PBS.

There is something wrong when overnight on the Airbus side, we go from generally great commutable schedules to '0' dark thirty starts to '0' dark thirty finishes with less hours and less days off. Why is that acceptable?

The airline industry have long recognized the fact that invariably because of base changes and closures, etc, a lot of their pilots will be commuters. One manifestation of that is the Jumpseating privilege we have. Every other airlines build their schedule with a mix of trips for commuters and for those who live in base and their operation works just fine, so it's not unreasonable for our pilots to demand the same.

The defeatist, "we can't do anything about it" or the "my bread is buttered on both sides, so I won't fight to effect change" attitude is quite frankly disgusting. I hope as some guys have said, that those guys are in the minority and that however long it takes, we will get a decent next contract.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:57 AM
  #4025  
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Originally Posted by KnockKnock View Post
OTZ, brother, I understand you’re content with what we have now because you’re able to mold the contract to fit your needs. I try hard to do the same. I also understand that the constant complaining is fatiguing, especially when it devolves into an us vs. them back and forth with no end in sight. However, you’ve got to at least try and understand that this contract is lagging and not everyone is able to do what you or I can to make it palatable. Just read the current contract comparison. All the facts are right there. Also, I don’t want to, or think anyone should have to, constantly find the loopholes and work arounds to improve our schedules every month. I don’t want to be looking over my shoulder at those RJ’s, wondering where the high water mark is gonna be.

Were you here pre-Kasher? If so, you already know it can be better. You’ve worked under a better contract. I wasn’t here pre-Kasher but I worked under a line bidding system that sounds similar to what AS had before it was gutted. I know it can be better. We deserve better. We should always be striving to improve this place. As it stands, we’re working under a concessionary contract from 2005 with minimal gains in the last 14 years. Yes, if we put in the work, we can carve out a pretty good QOL but we’ve earned more than that. It shouldn’t just be pretty good for some, it should be great for all.

I guarantee that the Delta pilots aren’t going to sit on their hands and say, “well, we’re done, we got it pretty good so let’s just ride this one to retirement“. They’re going to demand even better! Can you give me one reason why you have not earned a better contract with more days off, more protections and more money? I think I’m every bit as good as DAL, UAL, SWA, AAL pilots and have earned an equal compensation package and QOL. Every one of us here has earned it. The time is now to demand it. I want you to be able buy more houses, more boats, and drink more red stripe because I think you’ve put in the work and earned it. I want our new FO’s to be able to afford to buy houses in our current bases. I want commuters to be able to see their families. This place can be a great airline but we have to recognize our value in this market and stop settling for just o.k.
This right here! I can put my differences aside and I can work with you sir. Well said!
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:59 AM
  #4026  
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Originally Posted by fifidriver View Post
This right here! I can put my differences aside and I can work with you sir. Well said!
The vast majority are ready to do just that! I think the upcoming round of negotiations will be good for this combined group. Once we all see one another working together to achieve a contract that we can ALL accept, any gaps or feelings of resentment will dissolve. 3000+ pilots will never see eye to eye on everything but I’m pretty sure all 3000+ pilots can agree that stronger contractual protections, more time off with our friends and family and higher compensation are something worth putting our differences aside for. Let’s get to it!
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:14 PM
  #4027  
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Unbelievably well written and spot on, thank you Knock Knock. Could not agree more with every word you wrote.
Originally Posted by KnockKnock View Post
OTZ, brother, I understand you’re content with what we have now because you’re able to mold the contract to fit your needs. I try hard to do the same. I also understand that the constant complaining is fatiguing, especially when it devolves into an us vs. them back and forth with no end in sight. However, you’ve got to at least try and understand that this contract is lagging and not everyone is able to do what you or I can to make it palatable. Just read the current contract comparison. All the facts are right there. Also, I don’t want to, or think anyone should have to, constantly find the loopholes and work arounds to improve our schedules every month. I don’t want to be looking over my shoulder at those RJ’s, wondering where the high water mark is gonna be.

Were you here pre-Kasher? If so, you already know it can be better. You’ve worked under a better contract. I wasn’t here pre-Kasher but I worked under a line bidding system that sounds similar to what AS had before it was gutted. I know it can be better. We deserve better. We should always be striving to improve this place. As it stands, we’re working under a concessionary contract from 2005 with minimal gains in the last 14 years. Yes, if we put in the work, we can carve out a pretty good QOL but we’ve earned more than that. It shouldn’t just be pretty good for some, it should be great for all.

I guarantee that the Delta pilots aren’t going to sit on their hands and say, “well, we’re done, we got it pretty good so let’s just ride this one to retirement“. They’re going to demand even better! Can you give me one reason why you have not earned a better contract with more days off, more protections and more money? I think I’m every bit as good as DAL, UAL, SWA, AAL pilots and have earned an equal compensation package and QOL. Every one of us here has earned it. The time is now to demand it. I want you to be able buy more houses, more boats, and drink more red stripe because I think you’ve put in the work and earned it. I want our new FO’s to be able to afford to buy houses in our current bases. I want commuters to be able to see their families. This place can be a great airline but we have to recognize our value in this market and stop settling for just o.k.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:34 PM
  #4028  
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Ok. Sounds good. I am sure it all will happen, I am confident all this union ever needed was the fortitude of the VX pilot group. It is renowned and revered throughout the whole industry, known for its intellectual giants. How long will this bull market run 1,2,3 years? The company has really smart people working this equation. I will sit back and watch us get it all. I know our Union leadership very well, awesome guys, fun to party with. There isn’t one with an IQ over 115, but they are funny and a blast to hangout with.

Last edited by OTZeagle1; 03-12-2019 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:04 PM
  #4029  
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Originally Posted by OTZeagle1 View Post
Ok. Sounds good. I am sure it all will happen, I am confident all this union ever needed was the fortitude of the VX pilot group. It is renowned and revered throughout the whole industry, known for its intellectual giants. How long will this bull market run 1,2,3 years? The company has really smart people working this equation. I will sit back and watch us get it all. I know our Union leadership very well, awesome guys, fun to party with. There isn’t one with an IQ over 115, but they are funny and a blast to hangout with.
I am glad you open your mouth as much as you do! At least everyone will see what an arrogant individual you are. You are exactly what Ben and Brad need. Enjoy your boat!! Oh wait, you mind telling the whole group how big it is and how much it is worth? WOW!!!!

Your IQ level must be directly disproportional to your big Ego.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:56 PM
  #4030  
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Originally Posted by All Bizniz View Post
It is a solvable problem. Just not your solution. The solution is a better contract, including PBS.

There is something wrong when overnight on the Airbus side, we go from generally great commutable schedules to '0' dark thirty starts to '0' dark thirty finishes with less hours and less days off. Why is that acceptable?
OTZ is a troll, he just here to stoke the flames. He's obviously missing a few brain cells if he happy with this contract and can't figure out that a better contract for everyone will be more MONEY for him.

But to address your comment. The reason the productivity is dwindling on the Airbus is because it has now become the regional feed for the Boeing in some sense. It's harder to build productive trips with more legs with less block time per leg on avg. In addition, the contract has asinine rules like 5:51 that handicap us. I would venture to guess that while the productivity has slid from around 6 hours per day to 5.5 per day on the Airbus, the increase in productivity is gladly being accepted on the Boeing side.

Also, a side note is that unless the pairing optimizer is specifically told to create late shows and early releases, the best solution is early shows and late release. This gives the optimizer the most flexibility in building pairings and doesn't cost anymore to keep you on duty (besides 2.15 an hour). Any constraints you add to the optimizer, like late shows or early releases will have a negative effect on the solution (i.e. higher cost). In fact if you were to let it do whatever it would build 5 and even 6 day pairings as that is the 117 limit and some of the best use of a crewmember.

PBS isn't the magical silver bullet, garbage in garbage out. if you put crap pairings into it it will give you crap lines. Right now the Airbus side is reeling from a decrease in productivity per day, not so much from line bidding. It's just with PBS you had some success with picking certain days off and not spending multiple hours trying to figure out which line is the least crappy.

Avg credit per calendar day of greater than 5.5, duty rigs, and new credit limits (like 70 or 75) for each line built need to be implemented. The line bidding or PBS would then sort itself out.
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