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Old 03-11-2019, 07:41 AM
  #3981  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
The piece of information VX don't have is they haven't seen the Anglers in real contract negotiations.

Here's how its going to go...they'll stonewall the process for a couple years and finally allow it to go to the arbitrator.

Review the last couple arbitrations for the answer to how its going to play out. Are you ready to strike for what you want?
I know I'm ready.... Are you? - If you are not already retired that is.
(And I know it'll take a while to get there from a legal process perspective).
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:40 AM
  #3982  
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Originally Posted by Mudhen200 View Post
You know it Packrat....Except you also know that as long as it says Alaska on the side of the jet and as long as we are the only transportation available in the great state of Alaska - there will be no strike at Alaska.
Brad and Ben know this. So, Lets do our best to improve out contract. Lets fight the good fight and all that. But let's keep it real. I'm tired of listening to the kids talk about how tough they are and what they are going to do when they don't even know what they don't know.
Read and heed. You have to shoot for the moon but don't be shocked if you just get over the fence.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:40 AM
  #3983  
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Originally Posted by Mudhen200 View Post
You know it Packrat.

Except you also know that as long as it says Alaska on the side of the jet and as long as we are the only transportation available in the great state of Alaska - there will be no strike at Alaska. Simply can't happen. Personally I believe it could reach the point of being released to self help, but a strike would only be allowed to continue for a day or two at most. Murkowski would simply pick up the phone and call anybody in the white house and tell them that the native kids in OTZ, OME, BRW, BET, ADK, DLG, AKN, didn't get their daily ration of soda pop - and the strike would be over. Not to mention, I'm sure the federal Govt would not allow a bunch of grumpy overpaid pilots to shut down the transportation needs of the north slope as well as the largest zinc mine in the world.

Brad and Ben know this. So, Lets do our best to improve out contract. Lets fight the good fight and all that. But let's keep it real. I'm tired of listening to the kids talk about how tough they are and what they are going to do when they don't even know what they don't know.
All of those places have service by at least one other carrier, even if they are turboprops. There are the freight carriers too. They wouldn't be happy, but it wouldn't be the "only carrier shuts down" apocalypse you are implying.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:41 AM
  #3984  
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Originally Posted by Ala5ka View Post
There is no arbitrator in this round of negotiations.
There's ALWAYS an arbitrator at the end of an Alaska contract cycle. Anglers are proficient stonewallers unless, of course, you give them everything they want.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:07 AM
  #3985  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
There's ALWAYS an arbitrator at the end of an Alaska contract cycle. Anglers are proficient stonewallers unless, of course, you give them everything they want.
You are thinking of a federal mediator, not an arbitrator. There will be no arbitration in this contract cycle.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:20 AM
  #3986  
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Originally Posted by Packrat View Post
The piece of information VX don't have is they haven't seen the Anglers in real contract negotiations.



Here's how its going to go...they'll stonewall the process for a couple years and finally allow it to go to the arbitrator.



Review the last couple arbitrations for the answer to how its going to play out. Are you ready to strike for what you want?
Nobody's been released by the NLRB since Spirit in 2010. This despite many unions having their T's crossed and I's dotted and a continual process of stonewalling by management. Nobody's going to get released, thus Angle Lake isn't going to deal. This contract won't get settled until about 2026.

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Old 03-11-2019, 09:34 AM
  #3987  
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Originally Posted by WutFace View Post
Hey KnockKnock, how can you say that there's not a problem with attitudes on the L-AS side when this post is literally 3 posts up from yours?



You want to say that we're anti-Alaska, or we're anti-Boeing, but you're wrong. We're anti-apathy. And until you can look and recognize that there is a contingent of pilots at this company that are fat, dumb, and happy with the status quo, you're not going to get that new contract.

So stop looking for arguments, take a serious look at the reality of your own airline, and get onboard. If you you're willing to fight for a new contract - GREAT! We're gonna need your help to convince the old guard that it's in their best interests too.
Wut, yes, there are pilots here who are content with their lot in life. Just as there are pilots who were happy to spend their careers at VX long before you guys organized. There’s nothing you can do to convince someone they’re not happy so why try? Their situation doesn’t mirror yours. Many on these boards don’t see eye to eye because their perspectives are very different. Commuters have different needs than those that live in base. Reserves have different needs than line holders. It doesn’t make one right and one wrong. It means we don’t all understand each other’s situation. Each pilots specific needs expose strengths and weaknesses in the contract.

The disconnect begins when instead of simply stating their case, helping to inform anyone outside their bubble, pilots attack those with differing viewpoints. Pilots are very self centric people and in general, we see our individual situations as being the only one that matters. However, what purpose does it serve for a commuter to attack someone who lives in base or vice versa? Or for someone who has spent very little time on reserve to talk down to a pilot that’s been stuck on rsv for years? How is it beneficial for a CA that upgraded within a few years of employment to tell a seemingly lifelong FO how it goes? It doesn’t, it only widens the gap and nothing get accomplished.

What needs to be understood is that there has been an overall shift in how this pilot group sees their situation. Even though many of us live in base, we’ve commuted before. Even if we’ve been fortunate to hold lines fairly quickly here, we’ve spent years on reserve at other airlines. Even though some have enjoyed fast upgrades, many have spent the better part of their careers as FO’s. Most of us have our eyes wide open to the current state of the contract and have a better understanding of what the pilot group as a whole needs so the continued pointed attacks do absolutely nothing to further ones cause.

I’m not looking for arguments, I’m looking to end them. That doesn’t mean I’ll see things through your eyes or you’ll see things through mine. It means we have to accept that each of us has a different perspective and instead of attacking one another because our views don’t mesh 100%, we should attempt to explain how the differences affect us and how it can be reconciled.

Nothing will get done if the focus remains on how we’ve ended up in our current situation. You’re a smart person and you know that it goes much deeper than the surface arguments of whoes balls are bigger, whose airplane is better or whose pax are more intelligent, (yes, these are real arguments had by grown men....sad). There are decades of factors that have led us to the present. Simplifying the situation to lay blame on one group is the laziest way to justify ones anger.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:57 AM
  #3988  
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All you guys saying that Angle Lake will drag this out for ever should think about how American pilots got their 5 hour rigs and other improvements mid-contract. I know it didnít include dancing to the music at flightpath like weíve seen these last few months.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:01 AM
  #3989  
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Originally Posted by All Bizniz View Post
Guys on L-VX side who came VERY close to what YOU made in 2018 under your rates but our PRB rules will be making $60,000 p/a less and will also have less days OFF, now that we are post JCTE and fully under AS JCBA....

No joke...
I think that is awesome, they deserve it and I am happy for them
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:06 AM
  #3990  
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Originally Posted by Baradium View Post
I will be honest and say this is a discussion I avoid unless specifically asked, but you are trying to use other airlines' schedules against your own coworkers so it needs to be said.

Seattle based Delta 737 pilot here. Our pairings are nothing like ones I've seen of yours and definitely don't pay the same. Days off are not similar for most of the seniority list and schedule quality is not similar. Reserve rules are good enough that even on the 737 the bottom pilots can't always hold reserve if they want it (the plug this month has a line).

I don't want to belittle Alaska pilots. Generally every one of you is great when I commute, but please don't put down those wanting improvements by saying that our schedules are the same as yours and act like our work rules are as well. You should be looking to make it so it IS the same. You DO deserve to be under the same rules. You DO deserve to have pairings (and schedules) that look "a lot like ours." The thing is, they don't. There are a lot of areas that can be improved upon. There are a lot of pilots working schedules that remind me of my regional days. I don't even know why you want to die on this hill. You'd assuredly make more money under our rules.

I'll add that the 5 day trips are great. Some in base guys prefer 1 or 2 days, but commuters love 5 days. They tend to be high credit, they are commutable on both ends, generally starting with a red-eye so the footprint is similar to a 4 day trip. Credit is a minimum of 26:15 but they can end up higher and they tend to have 1-2 leg days with long layovers (most of our 737 trips are 1-2 leg days).
Perfect.... prove my point. 3 five day trips a month =Ďs 15 days off and a credit of 78.45. I have seen schedules at DAL. Our top 20% are better, our 20-75% are about the same, your bottom 25% are marginally better.

I know I work for a ****ty regional. The worst. I have three homes in Seattle, 2 free and clear. One is getting some polish on it and will hit the market this late spring for 1,400,000.00. I donít owe a dime on it, I know a lot of regional guys with there great schedules, and scratch, will be making offers on it.

Last edited by OTZeagle1; 03-11-2019 at 11:51 AM.
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