Notices

Alaska Air Hiring

Old 03-09-2019, 06:58 PM
  #3941  
DangleDunlops
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Originally Posted by fifidriver
Honest question. Who's to blame for this embarrassment we call contract? And quit blaming it on Kasher because that happened over a decade ago. My understanding is that pilots have negotiated and voted in a contract since then.
It was Kasher.
 
Old 03-09-2019, 08:24 PM
  #3942  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 443
Default

Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Iím not championing our contract. It lacks in a major way. Iíve worked under better. However, itís a fact that VX brought nothing to the table to improve the AS contract. You had no say in a merged contract because you guys didnít have anything to enforce. You brought no scope, you brought no wage increase, you brought no scheduling improvements etc. etc. It sounds like you guys enjoyed a better relationship with management which translated into better schedules but since none of it was in a contract...it was useless come JCBA time. So while you embrace the propaganda, or as you probably call it, fake news, against SEA based Boeing pilots, remember YOU did nothing to raise the industry bar and improve your current situation. YOU were ok with no scope, lower wages, less vacation accrual, less retirement etc. when you went to VX and it has led you to where you are today. It sounds like you have more in common with the very people youíre mad at than not.

Donít try and tell me that you voted in ALPA faster than any startup and weíre on the way to improving these thing because when YOU accepted a job at VX, YOU had no way of knowing if or when a union would be voted on property and a contract would be negotiated. That didnít stop you from taking the job. So donít blame SEA base pilots for your woes, just look in the mirror.

Iíve said it over and over that the pilot group has completely changed since the Ď13 contract was voted in. Itís a whole new ballgame and the mindset has shifted from content to contempt. Even for those of us who live in base. You can either wallow in your self imposed pity, complaining about being in the position you put yourself in or get informed and prepare to improve your situation.
You gained more in arbitration because of VX coming on board than you could get in the two previous contracts you voted in, donít get it twisted.
OhSnapAF is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 09:18 PM
  #3943  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Default

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF
You gained more in arbitration because of VX coming on board than you could get in the two previous contracts you voted in, donít get it twisted.
We gained nothing in arbitration. This is a contract extension with a pay raise. That's it. The AS contract was amendable April '18. I can just as easily say we were destined for big gains as you can say you were destined for big gains. The acquisition denied both groups that chance. So here we sit. We have a weak contract and you brought nothing to the table to improve upon it.
KnockKnock is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 09:50 PM
  #3944  
Gets Weekends Off
 
NotTellin's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: Upright & Breathing
Posts: 317
Default

Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Iím not championing our contract. It lacks in a major way. Iíve worked under better. However, itís a fact that VX brought nothing to the table to improve the AS contract. You had no say in a merged contract because you guys didnít have anything to enforce. You brought no scope, you brought no wage increase, you brought no scheduling improvements etc. etc. It sounds like you guys enjoyed a better relationship with management which translated into better schedules but since none of it was in a contract...it was useless come JCBA time. So while you embrace the propaganda, or as you probably call it, fake news, against SEA based Boeing pilots, remember YOU did nothing to raise the industry bar and improve your current situation. YOU were ok with no scope, lower wages, less vacation accrual, less retirement etc. when you went to VX and it has led you to where you are today. It sounds like you have more in common with the very people youíre mad at than not.

Donít try and tell me that you voted in ALPA faster than any startup and weíre on the way to improving these thing because when YOU accepted a job at VX, YOU had no way of knowing if or when a union would be voted on property and a contract would be negotiated. That didnít stop you from taking the job. So donít blame SEA base pilots for your woes, just look in the mirror.

Iíve said it over and over that the pilot group has completely changed since the Ď13 contract was voted in. Itís a whole new ballgame and the mindset has shifted from content to contempt. Even for those of us who live in base. You can either wallow in your self imposed pity, complaining about being in the position you put yourself in or get informed and prepare to improve your situation.
You got 800 pilots that are engaged and passionate about making it better. Just look to the the last LAX LEC election numbers for your proof. Go ahead and keep telling us how we are the problem, cause we are already proving you wrong.
NotTellin is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 10:58 PM
  #3945  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Default

Originally Posted by NotTellin
You got 800 pilots that are engaged and passionate about making it better. Just look to the the last LAX LEC election numbers for your proof. Go ahead and keep telling us how we are the problem, cause we are already proving you wrong.
I’m not telling you you’re the problem. I’m countering some of your peers arguments that the Boeing pilots are the problem and that your current dissatisfaction with the company is our fault. You may be 800 highly motivated pilots but we too, hired between ‘12-‘16, we’re close to 600 highly motivated new pilots added to the already 400-500 no voters. We too were robbed of the chance to improve the contract in ‘18. When you guys stand on your soapbox and question how on earth we could have the contract we have, I’m here to remind you that you too worked for a place that lacked the very things you now rage about and that you were complicit in your own career degradation. When you shout down to us about how you were poised to strike gold on your first contract, I’m here to remind you that we too were gearing up to take back what had been stolen by Kasher.

Both groups had their legs kicked out from under them because of this shotgun wedding. 3 years along now and the finger pointing hasn’t slowed down one bit. Maybe after the contract dust settles we’ll all finally see each other as equals. One can hope.
KnockKnock is offline  
Old 03-09-2019, 11:48 PM
  #3946  
Klsytakesit
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

To their point..We at Alaska caved in 09 and caved once again in 13 so we all live with that..What you are proposing is kinda like 3rd time is the charm.l understand their struggle and their doubt. Our lackluster track record in negotiations and 14 years of apathy post-Kasher do not exactly give us much cred
 
Old 03-10-2019, 05:29 AM
  #3947  
Banned
 
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 443
Default

Originally Posted by KnockKnock
We gained nothing in arbitration. This is a contract extension with a pay raise. That's it. The AS contract was amendable April '18. I can just as easily say we were destined for big gains as you can say you were destined for big gains. The acquisition denied both groups that chance. So here we sit. We have a weak contract and you brought nothing to the table to improve upon it.
Gained nothing? You gained improvements to 2 of the 3 sections and that ONLY happened because of VX. You’d still be under the same crap until 2020. The 737 pilot group history of contracts is not impressive. I don’t care whether that offends anyone or not. You need to stop fighting VX pilots and get over yourself. You sucked the Angel Lake Kool Aid down and you thought it was fine wine, we are telling you it isn’t, and it’s time to actually do something about it.

Go read the comparison document, then read it again. After that, read it one more time. VX didn’t make this contract the worst in the industry, so stop the blame game because quite frankly the blame isn’t on pilots who haven’t negotiated for, and voted in, these crap CBAs.

We didn’t want to be Alaska just like you didn’t want us to be Alaska. It’s done now, get over it, and just realize that your air group bubble mentality isn’t cutting it in 2019. Luckily we know you are a vocal minority. Most 737 pilots feel the same way which is great. Talking with union leaders, they are more confident now than ever, of a unified pilot group.

We are all on the same team now, but both sides should be equally frustrated at the hill we have to climb in 2020.
OhSnapAF is offline  
Old 03-10-2019, 08:28 AM
  #3948  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 692
Default

Originally Posted by OhSnapAF
Gained nothing? You gained improvements to 2 of the 3 sections and that ONLY happened because of VX. You’d still be under the same crap until 2020. The 737 pilot group history of contracts is not impressive. I don’t care whether that offends anyone or not. You need to stop fighting VX pilots and get over yourself. You sucked the Angel Lake Kool Aid down and you thought it was fine wine, we are telling you it isn’t, and it’s time to actually do something about it.

Go read the comparison document, then read it again. After that, read it one more time. VX didn’t make this contract the worst in the industry, so stop the blame game because quite frankly the blame isn’t on pilots who haven’t negotiated for, and voted in, these crap CBAs.

We didn’t want to be Alaska just like you didn’t want us to be Alaska. It’s done now, get over it, and just realize that your air group bubble mentality isn’t cutting it in 2019. Luckily we know you are a vocal minority. Most 737 pilots feel the same way which is great. Talking with union leaders, they are more confident now than ever, of a unified pilot group.

We are all on the same team now, but both sides should be equally frustrated at the hill we have to climb in 2020.
Again, you’ve chosen to focus on what the L-AS pilots have done without acknowledging that you worked for a company that had none of the things you now demand from AS and blame the AS pilots for not having. You don’t have those things because you accepted working for a company that didn’t offer those provisions long before the AS acquisition.

I’m under no illusion about our contract and if you bother to go back and read what I’ve written, you’ll see I too demand the same improvements you do. When I came here in ‘15, the number one conversation in our new hire class was that we were going to tackle scope in contract ‘18. So while the 737 track record may not have been impressive up to the ‘13 contract, the group dynamic had shifted drastically and we too were highly motivated to improve the CBA. We, just like you, never got that chance and no, we did not achieve gains in the JCBA because of VX. It has been a joint effort and just like you can claim, I can claim that we would have achieved much more on our own. Again, we never got the chance.

I’m not blaming the VX pilots for anything, repeat, I’m not blaming the VX pilots for anything. I’m pointing out that while you guys continue to blame the 737 pilots for your problems, YOUR complicity in working for a non-union shop that offered no protections and sold you off before you could realize any gains, renders your argument useless and is ironic at best.

I never said the VX pilots made this contract the worst in the industry, I’m saying you did noting at your shop to show up with anything better. You basically came to the potluck with no food and are now complaining to those that brought something, that their food sucks. It may suck but they didn’t show up empty handed.

I’ve been “over” the acquisition for a while now. I’ve accepted our fate together. I’m just tired of seeing some of your peers bashing the 737 guys repeatedly for accepting the exact same things they accepted when they said yes to the VX job. I was thinking that the combination of 800 highly motivated individuals to an already energized group of 1100 was going to bode well for 2020 but now I’m concerned that some of you are more emotional than motivated. Emotional contract negotiations never turn out well.
KnockKnock is offline  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:13 AM
  #3949  
Line Holder
 
fifidriver's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Position: Line bidding sucks!
Posts: 96
Default

Originally Posted by KnockKnock
Again, youíve chosen to focus on what the L-AS pilots have done without acknowledging that you worked for a company that had none of the things you now demand from AS and blame the AS pilots for not having. You donít have those things because you accepted working for a company that didnít offer those provisions long before the AS acquisition.

Iím under no illusion about our contract and if you bother to go back and read what Iíve written, youíll see I too demand the same improvements you do. When I came here in Ď15, the number one conversation in our new hire class was that we were going to tackle scope in contract Ď18. So while the 737 track record may not have been impressive up to the Ď13 contract, the group dynamic had shifted drastically and we too were highly motivated to improve the CBA. We, just like you, never got that chance and no, we did not achieve gains in the JCBA because of VX. It has been a joint effort and just like you can claim, I can claim that we would have achieved much more on our own. Again, we never got the chance.

Iím not blaming the VX pilots for anything, repeat, Iím not blaming the VX pilots for anything. Iím pointing out that while you guys continue to blame the 737 pilots for your problems, YOUR complicity in working for a non-union shop that offered no protections and sold you off before you could realize any gains, renders your argument useless and is ironic at best.

I never said the VX pilots made this contract the worst in the industry, Iím saying you did noting at your shop to show up with anything better. You basically came to the potluck with no food and are now complaining to those that brought something, that their food sucks. It may suck but they didnít show up empty handed.

Iíve been ďoverĒ the acquisition for a while now. Iíve accepted our fate together. Iím just tired of seeing some of your peers bashing the 737 guys repeatedly for accepting the exact same things they accepted when they said yes to the VX job. I was thinking that the combination of 800 highly motivated individuals to an already energized group of 1100 was going to bode well for 2020 but now Iím concerned that some of you are more emotional than motivated. Emotional contract negotiations never turn out well.
When will you understand that our NON-UNION work rules were better than your ALPA contract?!!! Although all we had was a "hand shake" agreement, we enjoyed better life quality both as line holders and as reserves (as difficult that may be for you to comprehend).

What we brought to the "potluck" dinner (although it feels like last dinner on Titanic) is a pair of balls, something that not all but quite a few Alaskan pilots lack and a sense of reality. Not all of us live in Gig Harbor... Believe me there is life outside PNW.

You know why we are emotional...? Because we have lost the quality of life we were all accustomed to! How is it possible that after two pay raises (one back in January and the one coming up in April, almost 20 bucks more) I will make roughly $1500 - $ 2000 less a month than I did in 2018 while working 2 extra days? Can you riddle me this? And you still claim that we had nothing prior to your contract?!

So yeah, if you think that we are sometimes too emotional, you are damn right we are! It's hard to leave emotions on the side when you are constantly hearing how we were saved by the mighty Alaska Air but in reality if feels like we jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.
fifidriver is offline  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:26 AM
  #3950  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 1,185
Default

Originally Posted by fifidriver
When will you understand that our NON-UNION work rules were better than your ALPA contract?!!! Although all we had was a "hand shake" agreement, we enjoyed better life quality both as line holders and as reserves (as difficult that may be for you to comprehend).

What we brought to the "potluck" dinner (although it feels like last dinner on Titanic) is a pair of balls, something that not all but quite a few Alaskan pilots lack and a sense of reality. Not all of us live in Gig Harbor... Believe me there is life outside PNW.

You know why we are emotional...? Because we have lost the quality of life we were all accustomed to! How is it possible that after two pay raises (one back in January and the one coming up in April, almost 20 bucks more) I will make roughly $1500 - $ 2000 less a month than I did in 2018 while working 2 extra days? Can you riddle me this? And you still claim that we had nothing prior to your contract?!

So yeah, if you think that we are sometimes too emotional, you are damn right we are! It's hard to leave emotions on the side when you are constantly hearing how we were saved by the mighty Alaska Air but in reality if feels like we jumped out of the frying pan into the fire.

This is embarrassing. I am sorry, I just donít believe you. Have your pitty party, cry, throw a tantrum, no one will get behind your cause, itís emotionally biased and full of exaggeration. I have seen Deltaís 737 pairings in Seattle. You know what, they look a lot like ours. I have seen the lines of my friends over there, 14-16 days off, they even have 5 day trips.

Last edited by OTZeagle1; 03-10-2019 at 10:43 AM.
OTZeagle1 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
vagabond
Hangar Talk
1
05-03-2011 05:44 PM
joel payne
Foreign
4
04-23-2009 01:38 PM
vagabond
Major
31
04-15-2009 08:51 AM
vagabond
Aviation Law
10
09-20-2008 12:50 PM
vagabond
Major
19
06-15-2007 06:29 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices