echelon

When did he do any of that?

av8or

Answer to “When did he do that?”

The pilots at Alaska have voted for an MEC/LEC and NC that has been forthright and transparent. They have exercised discipline and resolve. Theyve lead and built trust. They have listened and communicated.

And this pilot group has done the same. And, it’s insulting in the extreme to have some outsider jack wagon acting like HE is the arbiter of whether or not we have enough resolve, or got a good enough contract, or whatever his definition might be of “caving” etc.

echelon

But Alaska MECs HAVE sold TA's to the pilot group via road show. They HAVE used the BS "time value of money" line to sell a weak TA. The best way to fix this contract IS to start from scratch. Why is it insulting to hear the truth, just because it comes from someone who doesn't work here?

When Alaska bought VX they bought 800 pilots, all outsiders at the time, who for the most part were astonished not only to see how trash the contract was, but that Alaska pilots were proud of it! Frankly, this group of all pilot groups could probably benefit from paying more attention to outsiders' perspectives.

airb320

I just hope that some of our Pilots finally see that the payscale proposal from ALPA is a pure beginning of where we need to be NOT a place to negotiate down from especially with ENVOYS announcement today😉… simple

av8or

Im well aware of what PREVIOUS MEC’s have done. Is that what we do now? Going forward? Just set expectations, judge all future MEC’s and NC’s by the ones that came before them?

I understand the cynicism, but in all things you have to make judgment calls and evaluations based on current circumstances and individuals. You can’t just go through life relating to other people like “Ive known a lot of *********s in life. Are you an *********? You’re probably an *********. I’m just gonna have to treat you like the ********* you most likely are.”

IMO the problem with previous roadshows/contracts that were SOLD in the past, was that Alaska pilots had leadership that was FAR to chummy with management…. I’d even say by the time it got to road shows, the MEC had been infiltrated.

The rest is subjective opinion. We have, by your own definition, (VXrs, newer hires, etc) who both CURRENTLY occupy leadership here, ARE negotiating, but, also have a vested interest beyond being in management in 6 months.

If you’re gonna equate some rando poster on APC named Gearboy’s opinion a “legitimate outsiders perspective” vs our current leadership and pilot group, I don’t know what to say. I’ll ask the van driver his perspective later this morning and post it. It’s an outsiders perspective as well.

EskimoJoe

The very presence of VX undermined two contractual cycles here at Alaska. If we didn’t have the dead weight of a non union carrier that paid Captains around $90.00/hr we may have been able to make farther gains. The Company, of course sites VX as “The Competition” and we had to remain competitive by working for a discount. VX did nothing in its entire history to advance this Career. Just a fact.

av8or

Lol….. Yeah, probably didn’t have anything to do with the fact that you had members of Union leadership being groomed for management positions, or an “industry leading” no strike clause, or didn’t negotiate scope like literally every other carrier did 20 years ago, or that Union leadership wouldn’t even show up to a picketing event because they picked up a trip out of open time….. yeah…. It’s VX’s fault. (For the record, I’m not a former red tail driver)

rickair7777

No. There's always a startup in the industry. There's a few right now. Legacy AS people who want to blame someone for their history need look no further than management, timing, and the mirror.

All Bizniz

I mentioned in an earlier post GearBoy's doublespeak, because on one hand he talks about not doubting the union's, and the pilots' resolve, and our willingness to strike to get a contract; but he then turns around in another post and says we'll only get a contract when AS management is good and ready to give us one, and on their terms. THAT, suggests that the effort, unity and resolve thus far demonstrated is pointless - as if our actions have not, and will not have a significant effect on management's calculus on moving the negotiations along. I strongly disagree.

To be clear, achieving success is not a given, and we still have a ways to go, as no management is going to just hand over a great contract on a silver platter. But there is a perfect storm brewing in the favor of labor in general, and for pilots in particular, that will, if we stay the course, and our union faithfully represents our demands, achieve the desired outcome.

Like I said, GB might be stirring the pot just because he can, or he's here to plant seeds of doubt, in the hopes of undermining the resolve of those who might be susceptible. Either way, it makes interesting reading.

All Bizniz

Still in your bubble, huh?

It's ok... It is safe to come out now....Really..