Amen brother..Right there with you….United we stand/Divided we fail

Divided we fail.

Maybe fail is what you meant. But the expression is fall…Divided we fall.

United we stand/Divided we fail…,One of the oldest slogans from the real trade unions. Not the pilots benevolent association. Would not really expect a pilot to know that.

This pilot group and union has done more for its self in the last year, than all other previous pilot groups and MECs in the airlines 90 year history. It's been pretty darn well established at this point that both the union and the pilot group aren't playing around. I think it is important to manage expectations, but I also think it is important to actually listen to the MEC podcasts and communication that comes out. They are not going to bring us an AIP to vote on that doesn't meet the groups expectations. The MEC is all too aware that UA's TA was a disaster but a large part of that wad due to the rumor mill and mismanaged expectations.

Economic packages are being passed across both sides of the table, and the MEC has said almost verbatim that our needs and concerns have been met on the major issues we have voiced (like scope, scheduling, reserve etc.). I really encourage you all to listen to the podcasts. Remain vigilant but also I think it is fair to look at this glass half full and realize that the company obviously did a stark 180 and actually came to the table in a meaningful way, and that hopefully this is going to come to an end soon.

So after they stall for 3 yrs, now APC wants the pilots to stall negotiations to see what the big 3 get. Because the union hasn’t foreseen a circumstance where the big 3 get a contract later and to have some sort of review in the future? Some real winners in this thread.


Hows that attrition shaping up? “The worst we’ve ever seen.” What they also neglect to mention is that the other non big 4 pax carriers are in the exact same position from an attrition perspective. JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, and even Hawaiian. People are leaving in droves. Delta’s most junior CA on a narrowbody is a Dec 2021 hire. Delta’s most junior 757/767 Captain is LAX with a DOH of March 2020! A pandemic start hire holding widebody CA barely 2.5 yrs in (more then half spent home during pandemic). No amount of $$$$$ contract at Alaska is gonna stop people from leaving.

Here’s a honest prediction. Some of the most vocal people here are senior enough not to. Leave. We’re not going anywhere. They know it, we know it. People will complain and moan about the TA, even if a good TA passes, they’ll complain because this place is still Alaska. And we’ll still have attrition from the bottom 1500 of the list to the big 3 pax and big 2 cargo after a TA passes.

Shy, your unpopular opinion has some validity to it. People will leave for wide body flying no matter what. Your error is the underestimation of the people that will stay because of a good contract. So many of the arguments on here have a hint of “all or nothing”. A good contract is not about stopping completely the drain of talent. It’s about minimizing it. I’m a 5+ year guy that will probably leave if this contract is underwhelming. I don’t want to though and I know I’m not alone.

Shyguy just copy pastes this reply every few weeks without ever asking new hires who are leaving or reading replys. We understand your opinion. Clearly management at other startups/regionals/legacies disagree and think more money keeps more pilots. Crazy idea I know.

I cannot find fail, when I Google search.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ivided_we_fall

But I will take your word it is accurate, though I cannot find reference “to fail”, and many “to fall”.

I fly with plenty of newhires. One FO shared that some CAs were a bit harsh when asking why are you here/why you still here/why don’t you have apps out. I don’t ask. I figure if they’re here, it’s not their first rodeo and they are grown/professional enough to know why they’re here and why they may or may not want to stay. Sadly, I believe the union confirmed in an exit interview, 2 FOs mentioned a very negative experience with a CA regarding exactly this line of questioning.

I never ask why they’re here or if they have apps out. Instead, I spend the time/energy making sure they don’t have any questions about reserve stuff or how to move days around. Just flew with one FO hired November and he had no clue how to move reserve days around. So we logged into Crew Access and went over it. Got him 7 day off in a row. He said this was the first time a CA had spent time explaining how to do this stuff. How to look up the reserve grid, how to read the daily reserve list and see what the days available and total credit are for guys so you can figure out the likeliness of being used, etc.

To each his own. I don’t spend time dwelling on why someone is here or why they do or don’t want to stay. I will ask how it’s going, and if they’re reserve, do they know how to move days around around or look at coverage and read the reserve list. You’d be surprised how many new guys have no idea - not their fault, no one taught them. Being new is busy and stressful enough learning a new airline and plane. Some of this stuff gets overlooked until on the line and have to learn by trial and error.

ShyGuy's Rules #3

If you lose the debate, change the subject.