not sure I understand? It is a contract between the company and the union. If the company refuses to pay it then that is a pretty clear major violation. The MOA is no different than the CBA. It would be the same as if the company refused to match our 401(k).

It would be a gift to the union if the company refused to pay it because then we could actually get to self-help.

 

Nate don't underestimate the Teamsters' ability to mismanage this the way they have everything else. GU drags this out a couple more years we'll be presented with a hobson's choice, like all the pilot groups in the aughts who swore the db pension was the hill to die on. And negotiated it all away.

 

you may be right, I will never underestimate just how bad the teamsters know how to screw things up. GU is totally ineffective because he thinks he’s the smartest person in the room and will only surround himself with sycophants (JA - seriously, how is he the NC chair?) or with fools. Look at what happened to atlas and how totally they screwed that thing.

 

There is no money being set aside. There might be money that’s not being spent, but it’s not being set aside. And by the way the language in the payout is a little fuzzy.

”We are committed to paying out, at a minimum, these accrued amounts to each pilot employed at Allegiant 60 days after ratification of the new contract.”

Lump sum? Over 10 years? We will be in court again.

 

So just to make sure everyone understands what you're saying... please clarify if this isn't what you're saying:

1-2. You want to decertify the IBT and go non union to negotiate a gentlemen's agreement with the company like the AAPAG days. You haven't said who would be the student council representing "the group" at that point but I'm sure your plan includes you being involved (again) if you're actually a pilot (doubtful).

3. Once you've set this student council back up (AAPAG was representation similiar to Skywest Airlines Pilots Association for those who weren't here pre union) then you want to court ALPA to absorb your student council and have another card drive representational election. Knowing full well that the company will put on a full court press to interfere with this and will fully engage their union busting law firm. It will be a hard fight just like when we first went union. I suspect that you're good with that.

With your mockingly verbose writing style "Dear everybody" and this new burner account you're using it's pretty clear you're an anti union guy if you're not actually management. But I strongly suspect you're a lawyer.

I can tell you after 10 years at this company that "negotiating" unrepresented is their wet dream. Going back to the pre union days would only favor management and the super senior 200-300 pilots in the group. Your motivations are clear and transparent.

Nobody should be buying what this guy is selling. Y'all have showed a big weakness in this crack of support of your union and the company's union busting law firm has sent a TROLL (that word you hate again!)to exploit it.

Now I'll await another of your condescending mocking responses counselor. Everyone sees you for what you are here. Stop wasting everyone's time Esquire.

 

This is a rare moment that I agree with Tom.

First this company hates unions almost as much as Delta and SkyWest and will drag this out until they have to get an agreement because of force. The only reason we got the current contract was the investors wanting stability in order to secure financing for the new CEO airplanes and Swampseeker. Not because of the IBT or CG/CB's negotiating skillz.

Second you will have to fight the company to actually get this payout. It's nothing but a carrot to convince people to stay and a stick to scare them to say. I guarantee the loopholes Tom mentions will be exploited by "Making Sense" and the rest of the FH legal team. I also guarantee that this money isn't being set aside in an escrow account and just like legacy pensions it will be "whoops all the money is gone what should we do bankrupt the company to pay it"? At that point the union will negotiate it away. It's just a bargaining chip.

I think way too many of you were hired post contract and don't know the real nature of this company. That's why I'm here. To give out history lessons. MG is a scoundrel and until he's gone this will not be a normal airline. It will be a miserly vindictive employee hating company who will exploit every weakness to get what they want and then laugh in your face when you ask them to be fair. It's a dirt bag 135 airline that grew out of control. Treat it as such.

 

Darling Margi, my sweetest thorn!

Oh, how your conspiracy-laden missives brighten my days like confetti in a hurricane! Your dedication to stalking my every comment is simply fabulous. Thank you for daily laughs, please don’t stop : )

Let me serve you some simplified truth, since you seem to struggle with complexity:

- Regarding unions - I'm staying out of it, otherwise my comments here would be self-serving. We have the option to establish our own independent union - it's been successfully done before by other groups. We don’t necessarily have to be non-union during the transition/negotiation phase.

- Your persistent delusions about my identity are giving me life! If you're questioning my Allegiant pilot credentials, PM me - test me with any anything you like. And hey, who wouldn't want to be a "Margaritaville Certified Pilot"? It's quite amusing!

- While ALPA doesn't interest me personally, many pilots prefer the security of a large union. We'll put it to a democratic vote after the contract is signed, and I'm confident the company won't interfere with that process.

- Your accusations are simply to die for! Me, a union-busting lawyer with a burning account? A professional troll? Honey, I'm just a pilot living my best possible Allegiant life! Though I must say, being mistaken for a lawyer is oddly flattering - they do dress better!

- Since you are so obsessed with monitoring my posts addressed to others, I won't stop commenting in my own airline's forum. Are you trying to silence me? Did you get that straight of the Woke playbook?

My goal is simple: securing a better contract faster than our current negotiating committee.

I haven’t seen a single rational argument why that should not be possible.

XOXO,

Your favorite "Margaritaville Certified Pilot"

 

And there you have it. Counselor (in his mocking and condescending "smartest guy in the room" style) wants to create an independent "union" like we had with AAPAG before we voted IBT in. A student council that's controlled by management and only serves the top 25%. SAPA at G4. How'd that work out over there for those of you who left SkyWest?

And get this! He's CONFIDENT you can have a union vote "at some later date after the agreement is signed" (damage is already done) and THE COMPANY WON'T INTERFERE!!!

[Give me a minute to stop laughing]

Yeah okay guys. Follow this guy off the cliff. Vote your union out and trust the same management that sent contract pamphlets home to your spouses and bypassed your union. The company that has wontonly disregarded every agreement they have ever made. How's that PBS working out? Still got the HDMWDs??? Dont'cha love Larry's Limo (Hyundai) on 3 hour jaunts? Or take this rental car to FLL and then fly a double. Contract? Involuntary TDY for 8 months. WHAT CONTRACT? You can trust them! They always do what's best for the employees!

Bye now. I'm sure it's time for your next meeting over there at FordHarrison Esquire.

But I'm not going to continue to engage further with this guy. I got him to admit his true intentions. You decide if you want him "representing" you. I'd say stay with Teamsters until you get the contract done and then switch to ALPA.

Best of luck

 

that is not what it says. It clearly says no later than 60 days it will be paid out

 

If you don’t already know, Marg is completely correct here. Appreciate your post even though you don’t even work here. We can’t assume everyone knows what’s going on since we do have a lot of brand new to the airlines guys/gals here now, whether seasoned military or new CFI’s.