fishforfun

The inconsistency of the NOTAM vs TFR make it tough for us to do our jobs. Does dispatch even provide a copy of TFRs? I'm guessing not because the tower controller passed the number listed in the TFR. If the crew had the TFR and realized they were going to be flying through closed airspace due to the delay they could have called much sooner. They may get a slight pass due to this, but......

First, I dealt with this type of planning and dispatch in the AF. When the AF decided to jump on board with fuel planning just like this diverts just became a cost of doing business. We fought and argued that just 1 divert eliminates all the savings of not carrying extra fuel. How would any non management crew have handled this? When the company is planning fuel like this, albeit legal, they leave the crews little options when situations arise causing diverts. Again, just a cost of doing business.

Second, with this amount of negative press it's easy to see what would happen if this was any line crew. Looking at the story about the Capt that was fired based on supposed negative press you know these guys would have been thrown to the FAA and fired. That is the style of leadership I am leaving behind in the AF and pains me to see it happening on the outside. We are all going to screw up at one point or another, it just depends how you own it and how your leadership handles it. Something's are clear cut but most situations are not black and white and we make the best decisions with the given information at the time. Sometimes those turn out to be not the best decisions but as long as no metal was bent and no one hurt, take it as a lesson learned and move on. But seeing leadership crucify 1 and then give a pass to others based on their best judgment for a unique situation is disturbing.

USMCFLYR

There was a second NOTAM issued (07/043 I think), that listed a requirement for a PPR too with a phone number attached. It is unclear which was actually in affect at the time of the incident. I agree with knobcrk in this instance. There woudl either be landing slots or blocks of time between the practices that would allow for landing, but just showing up at ANY time and being cleared to land isn't going to work 100% of the time.

Packrat

^^^^^+1^^^^^

^^^^^+1^^^^^

Clearly, this is a case of managementitis. Reminds me of the AA CP who insisted on landing in Little Rock with an IOE F/O in a thunderstorm and ended up killing people (including himself). It seems they were more concerned with the additional costs the divert would incur rather than the safety aspect of running out of gas.

The NOTAM that should have been filed was that two Allegiant management dorks were flying so everyone else could be on guard.

USMCFLYR

I don't thin that '20' is the day the NOTAM was published.
It is just the 20th NOTAM of July.
There was a second NOTAM covering the same periods of time 07/043 which required a PPR.

I have tried to look up NOTAMS using the search engine on the website you linked too.
It not being there, or hard to find, I doubt has anything to do with the actual incident.
I tried to look up a past NOTAM that I had issued just a few days ago and could not find it on the website.

Vegaspilot

Here's where I (and I think where most of us) have a problem with this whole thing. This is the same guy that leads a flight ops group that has created a punitive culture and then goes out and does this. Do as I say, not as I do. In the eyes of many, any credibility (and any remaining respect) they had is now gone.

EngFail

So they had the required fuel to divert? By forcing an emergency condition that supposedly did not exist and falsely invoked the fuel emergency card? This alone suggest either incompetence or malicious intent. Instead of diverting to reassess and refuel, caused extreme negative national wide publicity and has evidently precipitated another faa heightened surveillance and investigation. This is the argument used to terminate the pie captain by GB. So, the captain on site in real time exercised his judgment to rectify an imperfect situation. And did so using incomplete information and made imperfect real time decisions. The VP gets a pass, we don’t.

sulkair

Did you expect it would be different? This is the way of the world these days. Not just in business, but in the running of our country as well. Integrity is a stodgy old word from the lexicon of yester-year. It has no place in today's business culture. Real leadership is also an obsolete ideal. Everything is upside down. I'd get used to it, because the trend vector is quite obvious.

eagleatr

The person that "investigated" this incident for Allegiant is one of the biggest weasels there.

Vegaspilot

No it was expected, but one can still hope and dream right?

maximus2015

If get awarded a base lets say sanford fl can they still assign homeless base? if so how many times can they do that per contract? is there way see your contract? thanks guys