Allegiant Air
#392
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Dawg,
I hope for the sake of the industry you are correct. I wouldn't underestimate management though, as their ineptness really only costs you QOL in so far as the operation still goes. In the way you all describe it, your management is trying to change the QOL expectations of the pilot group in total so that when the fall back position will be still a major giveback in terms of pilot contracts.
Mixed lines of reserve and flying without proper protections could really harm QOL.
Force TDY could really harm QOL.
PBS without negotiation and compensation will harm pilot QOL.
In essence, at least in the meantime, mgmt has won in accomplishing the quickly changing operation by essentially ignoring the costs to their employees in terms of QOL.
For the sake of all pilot groups I hope you all achieve an adequate contract and force mgmt to follow it.
LUV
I hope for the sake of the industry you are correct. I wouldn't underestimate management though, as their ineptness really only costs you QOL in so far as the operation still goes. In the way you all describe it, your management is trying to change the QOL expectations of the pilot group in total so that when the fall back position will be still a major giveback in terms of pilot contracts.
Mixed lines of reserve and flying without proper protections could really harm QOL.
Force TDY could really harm QOL.
PBS without negotiation and compensation will harm pilot QOL.
In essence, at least in the meantime, mgmt has won in accomplishing the quickly changing operation by essentially ignoring the costs to their employees in terms of QOL.
For the sake of all pilot groups I hope you all achieve an adequate contract and force mgmt to follow it.
LUV
Last edited by The Ocho Libre; 07-29-2014 at 03:48 PM.
#393
ValuJet Airlines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is who we work for. ValueJet's founders.
Like most low-cost airlines, ValuJet did not own any hangars or spare parts inventories. However, the measures it took to hold down fares were very aggressive even by low-cost standards. It required pilots to pay for their own training and only paid them after completed flights. It also gave flight attendants only bare-bones training. It also outsourced many functions other airlines handle themselves. For instance, it subcontracted maintenance to several companies, and these companies in turn subcontracted the work to other companies. Whenever delays were caused by mechanics, ValuJet cut the pay of the mechanics working on that plane.
This is who we work for. ValueJet's founders.
Like most low-cost airlines, ValuJet did not own any hangars or spare parts inventories. However, the measures it took to hold down fares were very aggressive even by low-cost standards. It required pilots to pay for their own training and only paid them after completed flights. It also gave flight attendants only bare-bones training. It also outsourced many functions other airlines handle themselves. For instance, it subcontracted maintenance to several companies, and these companies in turn subcontracted the work to other companies. Whenever delays were caused by mechanics, ValuJet cut the pay of the mechanics working on that plane.
#394
Banned
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 0
From: 7th green
That is exactly right and it is an illegal act on their part, not that they care yet, but they will. I am glad though, that management has shown themselves for who they really are.
For a long time we had a lot of pilots (me included to some degree) who thought this management team actually cared about them and their families, because they said they did and some of the things they did enforced those statements. But those days are long gone. Management sold SO much BS to the group for so long but they finally went too far so that even the most optimistic pilots began to scratch their heads wondering what was going on.
Now they have burnt almost EVERY bridge and this pilot group is FINALLY united to fight back, and being united here is something rare. For that, I really do want to give a big thank you to our management team. They have finally made it possible for this group to legally fight, not beg, for significant improvements, even as they lower the bar in the meantime.
I think I speak for nearly everyone here when I say that negotiating for what we already had is going to be FAR below what it will take to stop or end a strike. Management decided to take this to the end or close and because of that flawed tactic, they have lost the PR war, increased pilot unity and lost leverage. They've pushed the wolf into the corner and now for those of us here unable to run away (yet), forced us to fight, though fighting is not what we wanted to do.
We would have loved nothing more than for management to come in and negotiate with the union for a very reasonable contract, but our management team is far too arrogant to do so.
They really are an incredibly horrible management team. Until recently, they would put out letters saying things like, "wow, your union just did this or that and it will cost us (the airline) money, thats against our core values, boo whoo", as if the union is separate from the pilot group or that this group gives a *&^% about the massive company profits that they will just give away in special dividend payments to the shareholders and themselves while our engines blow up every week.
That tactic failed like everything else they do (except make massive profits on the backs of their employees and customers). So now we wait it out for 1. the 30 day cool off period, 2. the strike, 3. the contract or 4. they dig in and shut the whole thing down. Thats fine too, it would help the industry as far as I'm concerned, and they will lose a whole heck of a lot more money than me, they are the ones that called the airline an ATM machine not me. Their choice, but this BS is going to stop one way or another.
For a long time we had a lot of pilots (me included to some degree) who thought this management team actually cared about them and their families, because they said they did and some of the things they did enforced those statements. But those days are long gone. Management sold SO much BS to the group for so long but they finally went too far so that even the most optimistic pilots began to scratch their heads wondering what was going on.
Now they have burnt almost EVERY bridge and this pilot group is FINALLY united to fight back, and being united here is something rare. For that, I really do want to give a big thank you to our management team. They have finally made it possible for this group to legally fight, not beg, for significant improvements, even as they lower the bar in the meantime.
I think I speak for nearly everyone here when I say that negotiating for what we already had is going to be FAR below what it will take to stop or end a strike. Management decided to take this to the end or close and because of that flawed tactic, they have lost the PR war, increased pilot unity and lost leverage. They've pushed the wolf into the corner and now for those of us here unable to run away (yet), forced us to fight, though fighting is not what we wanted to do.
We would have loved nothing more than for management to come in and negotiate with the union for a very reasonable contract, but our management team is far too arrogant to do so.
They really are an incredibly horrible management team. Until recently, they would put out letters saying things like, "wow, your union just did this or that and it will cost us (the airline) money, thats against our core values, boo whoo", as if the union is separate from the pilot group or that this group gives a *&^% about the massive company profits that they will just give away in special dividend payments to the shareholders and themselves while our engines blow up every week.
That tactic failed like everything else they do (except make massive profits on the backs of their employees and customers). So now we wait it out for 1. the 30 day cool off period, 2. the strike, 3. the contract or 4. they dig in and shut the whole thing down. Thats fine too, it would help the industry as far as I'm concerned, and they will lose a whole heck of a lot more money than me, they are the ones that called the airline an ATM machine not me. Their choice, but this BS is going to stop one way or another.
#395
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
By the way Pack, are we still no showing for the sim in FL or did we get kicked out of there yet?? A buddy told me we arent missing anymore but not sure I believe it, in fact, I don't believe it.
#397
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
And still not a peep out of the good senator. I wonder why? He was so quick to respond last January when F&H got him his change of venue from FLL to Vegas. Just about spiked the ball in front of us, for what amounted to an administrative change. Had nothing to do with the merits of our Union based lawsuit. Maybe he’ll address the matter in our next “Coffee Corner." It’s been awhile.
#398
Banned
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 0
From: 7th green
Tip of the hat to your AFU training schedulers. LOL!
#399
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 0
That is exactly right and it is an illegal act on their part, not that they care yet, but they will. I am glad though, that management has shown themselves for who they really are. For a long time we had a lot of pilots (me included to some degree) who thought this management team actually cared about them and their families, because they said they did and some of the things they did enforced those statements. But those days are long gone. Management sold SO much BS to the group for so long but they finally went too far so that even the most optimistic pilots began to scratch their heads wondering what was going on. Now they have burnt almost EVERY bridge and this pilot group is FINALLY united to fight back, and being united here is something rare. For that, I really do want to give a big thank you to our management team. They have finally made it possible for this group to legally fight, not beg, for significant improvements, even as they lower the bar in the meantime. I think I speak for nearly everyone here when I say that negotiating for what we already had is going to be FAR below what it will take to stop or end a strike. Management decided to take this to the end or close and because of that flawed tactic, they have lost the PR war, increased pilot unity and lost leverage. They've pushed the wolf into the corner and now for those of us here unable to run away (yet), forced us to fight, though fighting is not what we wanted to do. We would have loved nothing more than for management to come in and negotiate with the union for a very reasonable contract, but our management team is far too arrogant to do so. They really are an incredibly horrible management team. Until recently, they would put out letters saying things like, "wow, your union just did this or that and it will cost us (the airline) money, thats against our core values, boo whoo", as if the union is separate from the pilot group or that this group gives a *&^% about the massive company profits that they will just give away in special dividend payments to the shareholders and themselves while our engines blow up every week. That tactic failed like everything else they do (except make massive profits on the backs of their employees and customers). So now we wait it out for 1. the 30 day cool off period, 2. the strike, 3. the contract or 4. they dig in and shut the whole thing down. Thats fine too, it would help the industry as far as I'm concerned, and they will lose a whole heck of a lot more money than me, they are the ones that called the airline an ATM machine not me. Their choice, but this BS is going to stop one way or another.
#400
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Did anybody get an interview yet from the DFW job fair?
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