Airline Pilot Central Forums - Furlough Estimates

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- - Furlough Estimates (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/american/129761-furlough-estimates.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Peso (Post 3105486)

APA didn’t even need to be in the room for this loa. This is a company’s wet dream come true. All the cost associated with furloughing a pilot just vanished. They’ll side line the whole 2500 for the winter with zero pay yet staying qualified. What a f@cking joking. And is there anything in these loas that require a portion of the 2500 to be awarded the alternating month schedule? Why not just offer that to the whole pilot group, maybe get some takers at the top end and save more money. Then award ZTLs to the 2500. They removed the one and only deterrent the company had to furloughing in mass, training cost.
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this 200% let it sink in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by airlinegypsy (Post 3105429)

Yes... but can’t those in the 900 preference for a ZTL in event of furlough? If they weren’t going to be furloughed then they won’t get a ZTL. Still making guarantee. That’s how I understand it anyways.

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All the company has to do is say they were going to need to furlough those 900.....or 1000...or 2500 over that 1600 and poof, they are gone...i talked to my rep today and he made it very very clear the company was not going to divulge their expected furlough numbers. And why would they? In your scenario you are assuming the company was only going to furlough 2500, which be for this **** deal that might have been all they did, but NNNOOOOOWWWW we gave them free ***king range to furlough(but not really because we will be doing that too ourselves, by choice with a gun to our head) as many as they want with ZERO ZERO NADA ZILCH monetary cost. Great job APA.

This deal seems ripe for a DFR suit by the 900 (possibly 2500) affected pilots. The 900 should, at a minimum discontinue dues payments and vote out their reps at the earliest opportunity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3105476)

yes yes and yes....I said this in an earlier post.....We would be much better off just going down the normal furlough road then this deal.....and for those saying that can't "furlough" people without a WARN notice, remember, it is NOT a furlough if someone ops into a ZTL by choice....if you are say 500 above the 2500 WARN line and bid ZTL in lieu of furlough, guess what? you are not furloughed!!!! People need to stop thinking that the 2500 WARN letters are some kind of stop gate because they are not! Now a person who was in no immediate danger of getting furloughed has just self furloughed themselves to the utter jubilant joy of the company....without knowing the cut line the bottom 4,000 I'd say pilots will put that sort of bid in. The company will absolutely take every pilot that puts in a ZTL bid and anyone one over the 2500 line who hasn't received a WARN notice and did not put in ZTL in lieu of furlough will get one shortly after the bid is awarded on or around 21st of August. But but that won't be 60 days notice!! Well guess what boys and girls section B.2.c of this piece of $hit says the company may offer ZTL that start in November. Anyone wonder why that is in there?? Well its so they can get the WARN letters out in the legally required time! Take the blinders of people, I wouldn't even wipe my dogs ass with this LOA.

Well not exactly. It wasn’t just an arbitrary 2500 pilots, it was a specific 2500 pilots. The most senior of which was identified and the warn letters that went out don’t apply to anyone above him/her.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by airlinegypsy (Post 3105588)

So I just was on one of the Zoom calls with the union reps they did for a base that was geared towards WARN pilots, and I am just as confused about this LOA as I was at the beginning. Now they made it seem like the only ones in danger of getting involuntarily furloughed or forced into a ZTL in lieu of furlough were in fact those 2500...but it was not clear at all nor did I get the feeling that there was any sort of concensus on this either from the reps...I hope I am very very wrong about this LOA...bottom line is APA needs to put out A LOT more info on this thing.

I don’t understand why your union would sign on for this unless, it just makes no sense.

It is hard for me to follow. How many folks are facing furlough on/about Oct 1, being hopefully the first and last round.

Quote:

Originally Posted by havick206 (Post 3105660)

I don’t understand why your union would sign on for this unless, it just makes no sense.

Join the club. This was the biggest backstab in APA history since...oh wait, never mind that's just how they operate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dobbs18 (Post 3105657)

...bottom line is APA needs to put out A LOT more info on this thing.

That’s for damn sure!

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This was a classic APA fumble. The more I read it and think about it, the worse it is. I originally thought we could save quite a few people from furlough. In actuality it’s just the opposite, with no downside to the company. They get to bench many more than planned because we are voluntarily doing it for free for them.

It’s really sad when the BOD comes up with this crap about how reduced ALV are a concession now, when the negotiators were directed to get it in contract talks as a gain in S6 negotiations 7 months ago. What The Actual F@CK?!

Here I thought EF and crew were going to be a good change...nope. Same crap different people. He hasn’t even addressed the membership, much less those in the 2500 about this crap sandwich. Probably “forgot” again. Just pathetic.