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Originally Posted by RhinoBallAuto
(Post 3105692)
No senior pilot above the cuurent cutline will get furloughed.
No senior pilot will be furloughed without having the opportunity to bid a ZTL or a conditional ZTL. A senior pilot, below the cutline, who passes on both the ZTL or conditional ZTL will be at risk of furlough. No one above the cut line will be able to bid the conditional line, only the bottom 2500. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Listened to the zoom. Still feel the same.
The APA turned the bottom 2500 into the “Hunger Games”. A disgusting sacrifice that will be ineffective at preventing the company from going bankrupt. We could all work for free and it wouldn’t dent American’s current financial issues. Spoke with my rep. He was happy that the LOA gave people “choices”. I reiterated that the BOD had “choices” when signing this and obviously went down the wrong path. I think most of us are trying to seriously wrap our heads around the BOD’s mental state when signing this. Sad day day not only for pilot groups, but unionized labor as a whole. |
Originally Posted by Dobbs18
(Post 3105476)
yes yes and yes....I said this in an earlier post.....We would be much better off just going down the normal furlough road then this deal.....and for those saying that can't "furlough" people without a WARN notice, remember, it is NOT a furlough if someone ops into a ZTL by choice....if you are say 500 above the 2500 WARN line and bid ZTL in lieu of furlough, guess what? you are not furloughed!!!! People need to stop thinking that the 2500 WARN letters are some kind of stop gate because they are not! Now a person who was in no immediate danger of getting furloughed has just self furloughed themselves to the utter jubilant joy of the company....without knowing the cut line the bottom 4,000 I'd say pilots will put that sort of bid in. The company will absolutely take every pilot that puts in a ZTL bid and anyone one over the 2500 line who hasn't received a WARN notice and did not put in ZTL in lieu of furlough will get one shortly after the bid is awarded on or around 21st of August. But but that won't be 60 days notice!! Well guess what boys and girls section B.2.c of this piece of $hit says the company may offer ZTL that start in November. Anyone wonder why that is in there?? Well its so they can get the WARN letters out in the legally required time! Take the blinders of people, I wouldn't even wipe my dogs ass with this LOA.
Ready, shoot, aim. If you were not WARNed and you bid a ZTL/1 on 1 off, you are saying that you want a ZTL and are getting what you asked for. If you were not WARNed, you will not be able to bid for a conditional ZTL or 1 on 1 off. You will only get these if you ask for it. "in lieu of furlough" means you are designated as a pilot who is getting furloughed. The company will then give you the option to take XYZ instead. You cannot take a deal that is in lieu of a furlough if you are not eligible for furlough. That is illegal under the WARN act. I get some people are upset about this but you need to relax and think logically. I am in the bottom half of the 2500, so this is not some senior guy who's safe talking here. Many are saying we would be better off just going down the regular old furlough path. If we collectively believe that, then no one in the 2500 will bid for any of these options. Senior pilots get the option to work less and save furloughs. Idealistic, yes. But BTLers always like to posture like we are united unlike the senior pilots. |
Originally Posted by m78fl370
(Post 3105776)
The Zoom Meeting was worthless. Huge waste of my evening. Concerns were NOT addressed.
1. I never thought about that 2. I’ll have to check with legal 3. I don’t understand the question 4. Hopefully that’ll be addressed in the Q&A Quality prep by our union on this...NOT! |
Originally Posted by sanicom3205
(Post 3105793)
Many are saying we would be better off just going down the regular old furlough path. If we collectively believe that, then no one in the 2500 will bid for any of these options. Senior pilots get the option to work less and save furloughs. Idealistic, yes. But BTLers always like to posture like we are united unlike the senior pilots.
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Originally Posted by Dobbs18
(Post 3105961)
Except in this case BTLers need senior guys to help them...I am just going to assume that all 2500 WARN pilots will be on a ZTL bid status one way or another when this is done...I hope I wrong, but there is no drawback for the company to NOT do this for those seven months...I hope i am very wrong about this and the company is truthful in the number they are going to tell us they "would" have furloughed when this bid is over.
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Everyone realizes that all this talk of ztl is moot once the Cares Act gets extended, right? And as of 2 days ago, I was 50/50 on if it would. But now it looks like a certainty. Our Government Affairs chair said so. Last night on the DFW zoom call the exact words used by a BOD member was "it's a done deal". Numerous high profile senators have publicly expressed support, the overwhelming majority of the house..and then Trump himself comes out yesterday and says they will help the airlines further.
So I'm not even concerned with this ztl nonsense. We're going to be good for another 6 months, at which point hopefully a change in the political landscape combined with a vaccine will have shifted things in the right direction for us. So screw this garbage we were just handed. It doesn't look like it'll ever even see the light of day. |
Originally Posted by FetaCheese
(Post 3106121)
Everyone realizes that all this talk of ztl is moot once the Cares Act gets extended, right? And as of 2 days ago, I was 50/50 on if it would. But now it looks like a certainty. Our Government Affairs chair said so. Last night on the DFW zoom call the exact words used by a BOD member was "it's a done deal". Numerous high profile senators have publicly expressed support, the overwhelming majority of the house..and then Trump himself comes out yesterday and says they will help the airlines further.
So I'm not even concerned with this ztl nonsense. We're going to be good for another 6 months, at which point hopefully a change in the political landscape combined with a vaccine will have shifted things in the right direction for us. So screw this garbage we were just handed. It doesn't look like it'll ever even see the light of day. Yes but this sheds a very bright light on how bad of a situation we are in with our union. Do we really want these people negotiating for is in future negotiations, let alone section 6? If the Cares Act 2 passes we need to really start overhauling our representation by either recalls, or pushing hard for ALPA. |
Originally Posted by wiz5422
(Post 3106131)
Yes but this sheds a very bright light on how bad of a situation we are in with our union. Do we really want these people negotiating for is in future negotiations, let alone section 6?
If the Cares Act 2 passes we need to really start overhauling our representation by either recalls, or pushing hard for ALPA. |
With regards to the zero time lines(ZTL) and the Alternate month lines (AML). When it comes to the conditional bidding in lieu of a furlough is one weighted heavy then the other?
Example; A pilot bids every two part bid statues (A320 FO) that is available for an AML will he be given a AML over a junior pilot who bids the same BUT ALSO BIDS every two part bid statues for a ZTL? Does one have to bid Both AML AND ZTL to not be furloughed over a junior pilot? Or is one going to be granted the AML because they bid every bid statues. This example isn't explained in the LOA it only explains a senior pilot won't be furloughed over a junior pilot if they select all available bid status for the AML and the ZTL separately, it doesn't say they have to bid Both options |
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