Furlough Estimates
08-05-2020, 07:31 PM
#821
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 212
As I look at this, the ZTL part of the LOA is not designed for the bottom 2500, it is designed or the top 5000, to save the bottom 2500. What do I mean? What do senior captains that max their pay/QOL do? Bid a line, drop, (through trades) all their lines (zero time), and then pick up tips to max their desired end state. They want a zero time line so they just pick and chose what they want rom open time, trades, premium, etc. Get the greedy CAs to jump on this any pretty soon you have a sizable hunk of mitigated furloughs.
The ALternat month schedule is or those that want some time off, have dual incomes with kids at home, want to get a lot of time of when combined with vacation or are too junior to normally get December off, but now will. Another sizable chunk of furloughs mitigated.
Furlough with training, those at the top o the bottom 2500. They don’t believe that they will be out very long, probably 190/75/76/330 pilots that can make some money from the company while furloughed.
The rest of us in the bottom half of the 2500 can hope for conditional ZTL or AML to not have to pay COBRA.
The bottom 1000 just have to wait and pray.
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The ALternat month schedule is or those that want some time off, have dual incomes with kids at home, want to get a lot of time of when combined with vacation or are too junior to normally get December off, but now will. Another sizable chunk of furloughs mitigated.
Furlough with training, those at the top o the bottom 2500. They don’t believe that they will be out very long, probably 190/75/76/330 pilots that can make some money from the company while furloughed.
The rest of us in the bottom half of the 2500 can hope for conditional ZTL or AML to not have to pay COBRA.
The bottom 1000 just have to wait and pray.
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08-05-2020, 07:36 PM
#822
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Recovering OBOGS addict
Posts: 385
After speaking directly with my rep, I will say this much:
They are aware of the same issues you all are posting here. The BOD is concerned about the risk of management failing to provide transparency regarding the "target" furlough number. They are discussing ways to ensure that the they don't move the goalposts in a manner many posters here are concerned about.
I am not sure the method they will try to use (or share on a public forum their options up for consideration), but suffice it to say, they want to make sure that your fears are addressed.
They are aware of the same issues you all are posting here. The BOD is concerned about the risk of management failing to provide transparency regarding the "target" furlough number. They are discussing ways to ensure that the they don't move the goalposts in a manner many posters here are concerned about.
I am not sure the method they will try to use (or share on a public forum their options up for consideration), but suffice it to say, they want to make sure that your fears are addressed.
08-05-2020, 10:07 PM
#823
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Position: 757/767
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by RhinoBallAuto
After speaking directly with my rep, I will say this much:
They are aware of the same issues you all are posting here. The BOD is concerned about the risk of management failing to provide transparency regarding the "target" furlough number. They are discussing ways to ensure that the they don't move the goalposts in a manner many posters here are concerned about.
I am not sure the method they will try to use (or share on a public forum their options up for consideration), but suffice it to say, they want to make sure that your fears are addressed.
They are aware of the same issues you all are posting here. The BOD is concerned about the risk of management failing to provide transparency regarding the "target" furlough number. They are discussing ways to ensure that the they don't move the goalposts in a manner many posters here are concerned about.
I am not sure the method they will try to use (or share on a public forum their options up for consideration), but suffice it to say, they want to make sure that your fears are addressed.
08-06-2020, 02:01 AM
#824
You scratched my anchor
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,876
Originally Posted by RhinoBallAuto
. The BOD is concerned about the risk of management failing to provide transparency regarding the "target" furlough number. They are discussing ways to ensure that the they don't move the goalposts in a manner many posters here are concerned about.
08-06-2020, 03:43 AM
#825
777 - ret
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: Waco CG-4 center seat
Posts: 863
Originally Posted by AAL24
Discussing ways to ensure this after they signed the LOA!WTF? Maybe they should have created some iron clad language before they signed the deal. Can we fire this NC and get the old one back?
08-06-2020, 04:16 AM
#826
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Recovering OBOGS addict
Posts: 385
Take a deep breath. Open a cold one and watch the zoom meeting when it's posted.
Then if you still have questions, email your reps for more information. APA has a bit of useful leverage in this matter. I trust the process, and I have more skin in the game than most.
Then if you still have questions, email your reps for more information. APA has a bit of useful leverage in this matter. I trust the process, and I have more skin in the game than most.
08-06-2020, 04:36 AM
#827
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 155
Originally Posted by RhinoBallAuto
Take a deep breath. Open a cold one and watch the zoom meeting when it's posted.
Then if you still have questions, email your reps for more information. APA has a bit of useful leverage in this matter. I trust the process, and I have more skin in the game than most.
Then if you still have questions, email your reps for more information. APA has a bit of useful leverage in this matter. I trust the process, and I have more skin in the game than most.
08-06-2020, 04:55 AM
#828
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by RhinoBallAuto
No senior pilot above the cuurent cutline will get furloughed.
No senior pilot will be furloughed without having the opportunity to bid a ZTL or a conditional ZTL.
A senior pilot, below the cutline, who passes on both the ZTL or conditional ZTL will be at risk of furlough.
No senior pilot will be furloughed without having the opportunity to bid a ZTL or a conditional ZTL.
A senior pilot, below the cutline, who passes on both the ZTL or conditional ZTL will be at risk of furlough.
No one above the cut line will be able to bid the conditional line, only the bottom 2500.
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08-06-2020, 05:17 AM
#829
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 7
Listened to the zoom. Still feel the same.
The APA turned the bottom 2500 into the “Hunger Games”. A disgusting sacrifice that will be ineffective at preventing the company from going bankrupt. We could all work for free and it wouldn’t dent American’s current financial issues.
Spoke with my rep. He was happy that the LOA gave people “choices”. I reiterated that the BOD had “choices” when signing this and obviously went down the wrong path. I think most of us are trying to seriously wrap our heads around the BOD’s mental state when signing this.
Sad day day not only for pilot groups, but unionized labor as a whole.
The APA turned the bottom 2500 into the “Hunger Games”. A disgusting sacrifice that will be ineffective at preventing the company from going bankrupt. We could all work for free and it wouldn’t dent American’s current financial issues.
Spoke with my rep. He was happy that the LOA gave people “choices”. I reiterated that the BOD had “choices” when signing this and obviously went down the wrong path. I think most of us are trying to seriously wrap our heads around the BOD’s mental state when signing this.
Sad day day not only for pilot groups, but unionized labor as a whole.
08-06-2020, 05:24 AM
#830
Eating A Gruben
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 1,065
Originally Posted by Dobbs18
yes yes and yes....I said this in an earlier post.....We would be much better off just going down the normal furlough road then this deal.....and for those saying that can't "furlough" people without a WARN notice, remember, it is NOT a furlough if someone ops into a ZTL by choice....if you are say 500 above the 2500 WARN line and bid ZTL in lieu of furlough, guess what? you are not furloughed!!!! People need to stop thinking that the 2500 WARN letters are some kind of stop gate because they are not! Now a person who was in no immediate danger of getting furloughed has just self furloughed themselves to the utter jubilant joy of the company....without knowing the cut line the bottom 4,000 I'd say pilots will put that sort of bid in. The company will absolutely take every pilot that puts in a ZTL bid and anyone one over the 2500 line who hasn't received a WARN notice and did not put in ZTL in lieu of furlough will get one shortly after the bid is awarded on or around 21st of August. But but that won't be 60 days notice!! Well guess what boys and girls section B.2.c of this piece of $hit says the company may offer ZTL that start in November. Anyone wonder why that is in there?? Well its so they can get the WARN letters out in the legally required time! Take the blinders of people, I wouldn't even wipe my dogs ass with this LOA.
Ready, shoot, aim.
If you were not WARNed and you bid a ZTL/1 on 1 off, you are saying that you want a ZTL and are getting what you asked for.
If you were not WARNed, you will not be able to bid for a conditional ZTL or 1 on 1 off. You will only get these if you ask for it.
"in lieu of furlough" means you are designated as a pilot who is getting furloughed. The company will then give you the option to take XYZ instead. You cannot take a deal that is in lieu of a furlough if you are not eligible for furlough. That is illegal under the WARN act. I get some people are upset about this but you need to relax and think logically. I am in the bottom half of the 2500, so this is not some senior guy who's safe talking here.
Many are saying we would be better off just going down the regular old furlough path. If we collectively believe that, then no one in the 2500 will bid for any of these options. Senior pilots get the option to work less and save furloughs. Idealistic, yes. But BTLers always like to posture like we are united unlike the senior pilots.
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