Furlough Estimates
08-07-2020 | 06:24 AM
#841
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 114
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Just me guessing...
I think the reason the BOD voted 20-0 is because the E&FA committee was able to show that number of potential furloughs has increased significantly.
The E&FA committee said during the zoom call that break even cost on furloughs is no longer 18-24 months.
I’ve heard a very good argument that with ability to do a displacement bid before hand, it could be as low as 9 months.
The Passenger loads are stagnant and not showing enough improvement to support the more optimistic pilot forecast numbers published in June. Therefore, the number of pilots required has been revised down. This is also supported by SAC on BTL.
Without a CARE Act 2, I think ALL 2500 are looking at a furlough. Hence the 20-0 vote on a sub par LOA.
I think the reason the BOD voted 20-0 is because the E&FA committee was able to show that number of potential furloughs has increased significantly.
The E&FA committee said during the zoom call that break even cost on furloughs is no longer 18-24 months.
I’ve heard a very good argument that with ability to do a displacement bid before hand, it could be as low as 9 months.
The Passenger loads are stagnant and not showing enough improvement to support the more optimistic pilot forecast numbers published in June. Therefore, the number of pilots required has been revised down. This is also supported by SAC on BTL.
Without a CARE Act 2, I think ALL 2500 are looking at a furlough. Hence the 20-0 vote on a sub par LOA.
08-07-2020 | 06:26 AM
#842
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 585
Likes: 48
From: 757/767
Assuming the Cares act is extended we should figure out a way to get these LOAs tossed prior March 2021. In the event of a merger an arbitrator is going to treat a pilot who chooses a ZTL instead of furlough as basically not bringing a job to the merger. The company is now incentivized to furlough or ZTL all 2500 junior pilots. There is no downside for the company. Our likely merger partner just got furlough protection. Looks like the bottom 2500 on a combined list will be AA pilots. Thanks BOD
08-07-2020 | 07:01 AM
#843
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 0
From: Airbus button pusher
Assuming the Cares act is extended we should figure out a way to get these LOAs tossed prior March 2021. In the event of a merger an arbitrator is going to treat a pilot who chooses a ZTL instead of furlough as basically not bringing a job to the merger. The company is now incentivized to furlough or ZTL all 2500 junior pilots. There is no downside for the company. Our likely merger partner just got furlough protection. Looks like the bottom 2500 on a combined list will be AA pilots. Thanks BOD
08-07-2020 | 09:11 AM
#844
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 592
Likes: 1
Just me guessing...
I think the reason the BOD voted 20-0 is because the E&FA committee was able to show that number of potential furloughs has increased significantly.
The E&FA committee said during the zoom call that break even cost on furloughs is no longer 18-24 months.
I’ve heard a very good argument that with ability to do a displacement bid before hand, it could be as low as 9 months.
The Passenger loads are stagnant and not showing enough improvement to support the more optimistic pilot forecast numbers published in June. Therefore, the number of pilots required has been revised down. This is also supported by SAC on BTL.
Without a CARE Act 2, I think ALL 2500 are looking at a furlough. Hence the 20-0 vote on a sub par LOA.
I think the reason the BOD voted 20-0 is because the E&FA committee was able to show that number of potential furloughs has increased significantly.
The E&FA committee said during the zoom call that break even cost on furloughs is no longer 18-24 months.
I’ve heard a very good argument that with ability to do a displacement bid before hand, it could be as low as 9 months.
The Passenger loads are stagnant and not showing enough improvement to support the more optimistic pilot forecast numbers published in June. Therefore, the number of pilots required has been revised down. This is also supported by SAC on BTL.
Without a CARE Act 2, I think ALL 2500 are looking at a furlough. Hence the 20-0 vote on a sub par LOA.
08-07-2020 | 11:36 AM
#845
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Assuming the Cares act is extended we should figure out a way to get these LOAs tossed prior March 2021. In the event of a merger an arbitrator is going to treat a pilot who chooses a ZTL instead of furlough as basically not bringing a job to the merger. The company is now incentivized to furlough or ZTL all 2500 junior pilots. There is no downside for the company. Our likely merger partner just got furlough protection. Looks like the bottom 2500 on a combined list will be AA pilots. Thanks BOD
A ZTL is still active and can still participate in TTS,TTOT. So they bing that to the company and would be considered above furloughs of another company in a merger as long as no one above them is on a deferred return.
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08-07-2020 | 12:17 PM
#846
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 156
Likes: 1
From: Guppy Captain
08-07-2020 | 12:28 PM
#847
New Hire
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
I’ve been following this thread since it was started. Finally decided to join in. I’m stuck right in the middle of the unlucky “900”. Hopefully the Cares Act 2 kicks in so none of the 2500 actually have to bid on this crap LOA. I’ve talked to quite a few other pilots that are scattered throughout the 2500 and everyone seems to be in agreement. Bid for the Alternating Month option since it will allow us to deplete all of our sick time and use the remaining VSTLOA months until December. Besides that, everyone would prefer to be furloughed rather than stay current for basically free since it’s way better financially to take the furlough/vacation payout and then file unemployment. Also, “rumor” has it that a Class Action DFR/Negligence Lawsuit is being prepared for the 2500 against APA.
08-07-2020 | 01:56 PM
#848
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 161
Likes: 1
I’ve been following this thread since it was started. Finally decided to join in. I’m stuck right in the middle of the unlucky “900”. Hopefully the Cares Act 2 kicks in so none of the 2500 actually have to bid on this crap LOA. I’ve talked to quite a few other pilots that are scattered throughout the 2500 and everyone seems to be in agreement. Bid for the Alternating Month option since it will allow us to deplete all of our sick time and use the remaining VSTLOA months until December. Besides that, everyone would prefer to be furloughed rather than stay current for basically free since it’s way better financially to take the furlough/vacation payout and then file unemployment. Also, “rumor” has it that a Class Action DFR/Negligence Lawsuit is being prepared for the 2500 against APA.
08-07-2020 | 02:04 PM
#849
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
Yes but this sheds a very bright light on how bad of a situation we are in with our union. Do we really want these people negotiating for is in future negotiations, let alone section 6?
If the Cares Act 2 passes we need to really start overhauling our representation by either recalls, or pushing hard for ALPA.
If the Cares Act 2 passes we need to really start overhauling our representation by either recalls, or pushing hard for ALPA.
08-07-2020 | 02:45 PM
#850
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Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 216
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You guys hearing about this TTS 2.0 crap now? Another stab in the back from APA. Apparently they're changing our trip trading system from first come first serve like it is now, to a seniority based system.
So if you want to trip trade or pick up anything, you have to enter parameters. Then you get it only if someone senior doesn't want it too. And this is something APA requested..it wasn't management. And with ZTL lines that pretty much ensures the 2500 will never fly.
Another way APA is making clear they only care about senior pilots. This is turning into a tragic comedy.
So if you want to trip trade or pick up anything, you have to enter parameters. Then you get it only if someone senior doesn't want it too. And this is something APA requested..it wasn't management. And with ZTL lines that pretty much ensures the 2500 will never fly.
Another way APA is making clear they only care about senior pilots. This is turning into a tragic comedy.
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