Originally Posted by EasternShore

The company never revealed their furlough number. Tough to play checkers against someone that never moves their back row.

Prior to the LOA they might’ve only furloughed 1600 and kept an extra 900 employed all winter for summer of ‘21. Now what choice does anyone in the 2500 have?
-hard furlough, unemployment and furlough pay
or
-ZTL, no unemployment, no furlough pay

yes, hopefully QnA proves me wrong

Originally Posted by Dobbs18

so let's say 2,000 of the most jr pilots take the zero lines in lieu of being furloughed, and the next 500 don't and just instead check the box "I will take the zero line only if it's my only option instead of being furloughed."(or all 2,500 check this box same results) Now the company says hot damn we got 2,500 guys now not getting paid when we were only going to furlough 1,300-1,500. And those 500 people who otherwise would have been fine are now sitting at home getting little to no pay. It basically gives the company an easy out to put all 2500 WARN notice pilots on a semi-state furlough status and get to chalk it up as "voluntary". I mean you need to look at this agreement and think worse case scenario not best case....why not make an agreement that has the zero line options but if and when they don't get enough they furlough from the bottom? What is the number of furloughs the company is thinking of furloughing? 1,000...1,500...2,500??? What's to keep them from saying "well all 2,500 were going to be furloughed(wink wink) so we accepted all their zero line in lieu of furlough bids". Or they get all 2,500 checking the box and they still say welp sorry guys and gals still need to furlough the next 500 senior pilots. So now we have 2,500 jr pilots not furloughed not getting paid and 500 more senior pilots furloughed not getting paid....I mean were do the numbers stop? How is someone suppose to prepare for this? They are basically forcing the bottom 2,500 into zero lines. Some please explain if I am totally wrong.

Originally Posted by EagleVol

I do think the company should put out actual furlough numbers beforehand because as of now you are correct, if you’re in the bottom 2500 you have to assume you will be furloughed and if you’d rather have a ZTL than a full furlough you need to check the box indicating so. These are questions for APA.

Originally Posted by EasternShore

The company never revealed their furlough number. Tough to play checkers against someone that never moves their back row.

Prior to the LOA they might’ve only furloughed 1600 and kept an extra 900 employed all winter for summer of ‘21. Now what choice does anyone in the 2500 have?
-hard furlough, unemployment and furlough pay
or
-ZTL, no unemployment, no furlough pay

yes, hopefully QnA proves me wrong

Originally Posted by m78fl370

This is the main issue. IF the company is transparent, and gives us the actual number of furloughs prior to the ZTL bids, and the awarded ZTLs plus furloughs do not exceed that number, then this deal is not bad at all.

HOWEVER, If they refuse to give us this number beforehand, expect the whole 2500 to be gone, “voluntarily” No question. Without this number virtually everyone in the 2500 will be forced to bid a conditional ZTL, and the company will be able to zap their entire fall overage, something that would not have been possible otherwise with traditional furloughs due to cost and training bubble. They were going to have to carry the pilot overage through the fall in order to be staffed for next year, now, they just duped us into allowing us to furlough ourselves with no furlough pay, or rebidding, requaling, none of the cost. Disaster. MANY more pilots will likely be without work this fall than would have been without this screwjob.

Originally Posted by rcflying53

The company may not publish furlough numbers, but they are publishing the approximate amount of ZTL and EOM available for each 4 part status. So, we should be able to figure ball park furlough numbers from those I’d think.

Originally Posted by Dobbs18

yes yes yes!!!! I am glad I am not the only one on here who sees this! I was beginning to doubt my reading comprehension and reasoning skills. We just "voluntary" ****ed ourselves.

Originally Posted by rcflying53

The company may not publish furlough numbers, but they are publishing the approximate amount of ZTL and EOM available for each 4 part status. So, we should be able to figure ball park furlough numbers from those I’d think.

Originally Posted by Dobbs18

they said best estimate and they said those numbers are not minimums...those numbers don't mean much without a number of furloughs. Without a furlough number there is no way to keep the company in check with these "awards"(more like penalties).