Negotiation Update
09-16-2022 | 08:49 PM
#91
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
I'm not sure what the benefit of absorbing the three WO is. I can see the benefit of merging the 3 WO.
09-16-2022 | 09:57 PM
#93
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 289
Likes: 51
Pilot expectations won’t align with what management can justify to their Boards, especially with the uncertainties of a recession looming. So we’ll all likely deal with making the same or less than regional pilots until we either agree to less than we deserve or don’t agree and keep negotiating until we hit more favorable conditions.
It's worse than that. Rough breakdown of hourly wages per available seats (50 seater vs narrow body, APC numbers).
AA FO
Year 1: $0.45 / seat
Year 2: $0.69 / seat
Year 3: $0.82 / seat
WO FO
Year 1: $1.8 / seat
Year 2: $1.94 / seat
Year 3: $2.1 / seat
That's our worth. Over two to three times less than a 1500h CFI (no offense to them).
It goes downhill from there, looking at captains and/or wide-bodies. To that, add the incomprehensible delayed yearly raise, and no 401k for the poor bastards who actually interviewed for the job.
Insulting, and embarrassing.
I fully anticipate working under another subpar industry trailing turd. Too many folks at this airline are willing to sandbag everyone for a quick check on their way out.
09-17-2022 | 05:09 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 95
‘Username checks out……
09-17-2022 | 05:13 AM
#95
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 305
Likes: 0
It's worse than that. Rough breakdown of hourly wages per available seats (50 seater vs narrow body, APC numbers).
AA FO
Year 1: $0.45 / seat
Year 2: $0.69 / seat
Year 3: $0.82 / seat
WO FO
Year 1: $1.8 / seat
Year 2: $1.94 / seat
Year 3: $2.1 / seat
That's our worth. Over two to three times less than a 1500h CFI (no offense to them).
It goes downhill from there, looking at captains and/or wide-bodies. To that, add the incomprehensible delayed yearly raise, and no 401k for the poor bastards who actually interviewed for the job.
Insulting, and embarrassing.
I fully anticipate working under another subpar industry trailing turd. Too many folks at this airline are willing to sandbag everyone for a quick check on their way out.
AA FO
Year 1: $0.45 / seat
Year 2: $0.69 / seat
Year 3: $0.82 / seat
WO FO
Year 1: $1.8 / seat
Year 2: $1.94 / seat
Year 3: $2.1 / seat
That's our worth. Over two to three times less than a 1500h CFI (no offense to them).
It goes downhill from there, looking at captains and/or wide-bodies. To that, add the incomprehensible delayed yearly raise, and no 401k for the poor bastards who actually interviewed for the job.
Insulting, and embarrassing.
I fully anticipate working under another subpar industry trailing turd. Too many folks at this airline are willing to sandbag everyone for a quick check on their way out.
There should be ZERO pay difference between WO flow and an OTS new hire.
Last edited by NotPhlying; 09-17-2022 at 05:28 AM.
09-17-2022 | 06:17 AM
#96
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 444
Likes: 99
Probably because someone a lot smarter than you crunched the numbers and realized they would make more money (i.e. the stock price would stay higher) that way.
09-17-2022 | 06:31 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 4
From: A320 CA
Im pretty sure it’s AA that is against this. Once they do that they will have to do the same for WO gate agents, rampers, FA’s etc, and the costs go up. I would be for this personally, I think it’s more options for our pilots. We’d have to get the group 1 pay rates sorted and it would affect OTS hiring of military for a few years but that would sort out eventually too and we’d be like SWA with no feed and no problem hiring.
09-17-2022 | 07:02 AM
#98
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 75
Im pretty sure it’s AA that is against this. Once they do that they will have to do the same for WO gate agents, rampers, FA’s etc, and the costs go up. I would be for this personally, I think it’s more options for our pilots. We’d have to get the group 1 pay rates sorted and it would affect OTS hiring of military for a few years but that would sort out eventually too and we’d be like SWA with no feed and no problem hiring.
The FAs maybe would have to be brought aboard.
Someone else before you mentioned how it would affect OTS/MIL hires. It would but: I worked in the training dept at a WO. I can 1 million % assure you that AA management could not care one bit less about quality of pilots. If they meet the minimum(pass training) they are a qualified line pilot. That’s all AA cares about, bodies. Where those bodies come from no one cares.
09-17-2022 | 07:12 AM
#99
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 369
Likes: 62
Legacy AA guy here. Please stop whining.
Whose group is signing up to be Check Pilots? Hint not legacy pilots, they are quitting in droves.
Snake1234 is dividing our pilots. Don’t pay attention to him.
Some people on this thread really come across as whiny. Relax. We all want a contract. Personally I could care less about the pay rates. I want quality of life.
I recently flew with a pilot that boasted of crediting 180 hrs. and 200 hrs. over the last two months and was up to 120 so far that month. He was *****ing about the contract. To each his own but he is not helping our cause. Stop whining about us old guys and consult your greedy peers. Thanks.
I have NEVER done overtime and don’t plan on it either.
Whose group is signing up to be Check Pilots? Hint not legacy pilots, they are quitting in droves.
Snake1234 is dividing our pilots. Don’t pay attention to him.
Some people on this thread really come across as whiny. Relax. We all want a contract. Personally I could care less about the pay rates. I want quality of life.
I recently flew with a pilot that boasted of crediting 180 hrs. and 200 hrs. over the last two months and was up to 120 so far that month. He was *****ing about the contract. To each his own but he is not helping our cause. Stop whining about us old guys and consult your greedy peers. Thanks.
I have NEVER done overtime and don’t plan on it either.
09-17-2022 | 08:09 AM
#100
Atmospheric Penetrator
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 248
Likes: 1
This guy gets it ^^^^
Twenty five years ago, pilots flew 70-75hrs per month, made more money (relatively), then went home to their families with their brains intact. I'd take better rigs over better premium pay all day. It's time to put an end to the wh*ring era.
Twenty five years ago, pilots flew 70-75hrs per month, made more money (relatively), then went home to their families with their brains intact. I'd take better rigs over better premium pay all day. It's time to put an end to the wh*ring era.
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