Negotiation Update
09-24-2022 | 06:30 AM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2015
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So it is a "perk" that some new hires get paid more than others? Please tell me that you're joking. Hogwash, it is punishing one new hire by drastically negatively impacting their future investment potential over another new hire with the same seniority date. In what universe is that okay? It's this kind of mindset that is ruining AA along with the old guard running APA. These clowns need to go.
And yes, WO bonuses were light-years ahead of bonuses from Skywest, Republic, or Mesa for years, not just recently. Now you guys get paid triple a Republic pilot and guess what, STILL get 401K matching day one at AA. Care to explain that? Is that still a "perk"?
And yes, WO bonuses were light-years ahead of bonuses from Skywest, Republic, or Mesa for years, not just recently. Now you guys get paid triple a Republic pilot and guess what, STILL get 401K matching day one at AA. Care to explain that? Is that still a "perk"?
You obviously see it it differently. Well, ok enjoy your day.
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09-24-2022 | 06:51 AM
#182
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,671
Likes: 17
I hope you understand you can’t staple anyone under current laws. More than likely any seniority list integration would go to arbitration. No one would agree to a staple because you can’t do worse than that. Arbitration offers the hope of a improvement with zero downside.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
09-24-2022 | 08:39 AM
#183
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Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 305
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Actually, you're wrong, as usual. You can't involuntarily staple an acquired labor group, but they certainly can agree to it voluntarily. Usually how they are convinced to agree to that is the threat of a shutdown or dissolution of the deal. Ask the AirTran pilots.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
09-24-2022 | 09:08 AM
#184
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 749
Likes: 0
Alaska..
Alaska Airlines and ALPA appear to have reached an agreement on an industry-leading pilot TA.
Pay rates:
- Year 1 FO: $104 per flight hour
- Year 2 FO: $148 per flight hour
- Year 5 CA: $290.47 per flight hour
- Top of Scale (CA DOS): $306 per flight hour
Scope:
- Vast gains
- Regional Airline limitations
- Code Share protections
- Merger protections
- Removal of arbitration requirement in the event of a merger.
Notable items:
- Holiday and ETOPS pay
- “Snap Up” clause
- “Delay pay”
Alaska Airlines and ALPA appear to have reached an agreement on an industry-leading pilot TA.
Pay rates:
- Year 1 FO: $104 per flight hour
- Year 2 FO: $148 per flight hour
- Year 5 CA: $290.47 per flight hour
- Top of Scale (CA DOS): $306 per flight hour
Scope:
- Vast gains
- Regional Airline limitations
- Code Share protections
- Merger protections
- Removal of arbitration requirement in the event of a merger.
Notable items:
- Holiday and ETOPS pay
- “Snap Up” clause
- “Delay pay”
Nothing to add.
Just want to make sure everyone gets to see the kind of crap wages that *ALPA* thinks is fair for A320 and 737 operators.
09-24-2022 | 09:14 AM
#185
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Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 246
Likes: 2
Actually, you're wrong, as usual. You can't involuntarily staple an acquired labor group, but they certainly can agree to it voluntarily. Usually how they are convinced to agree to that is the threat of a shutdown or dissolution of the deal. Ask the AirTran pilots.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
09-24-2022 | 10:50 AM
#186
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 226
Likes: 50
Your pilot group has serious Stockholm syndrome.
09-24-2022 | 11:03 AM
#187
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Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 305
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Good for Alaska, bad for anyone negotiating.
Last edited by NotPhlying; 09-24-2022 at 11:22 AM.
09-24-2022 | 12:38 PM
#188
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 373
Likes: 14
Actually, you're wrong, as usual. You can't involuntarily staple an acquired labor group, but they certainly can agree to it voluntarily. Usually how they are convinced to agree to that is the threat of a shutdown or dissolution of the deal. Ask the AirTran pilots.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
AA and APA could certainly offer the WOs a take it or leave it staple deal, and if they turn around and demand integration, the deal goes away, and their flying gets transferred to SkyWest, Mesa, and Air Wisconsin. Checkmate.
So yeah, you can still staple people. You just can't force it on them anymore like TWA.
There is a reason the 5-year W/O CA are getting $213.75 ... It's because NONE of the other carriers you mention can actually staff their planes.
09-25-2022 | 05:53 AM
#189
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 75
What advantage is gained for AA pilots to "increase flow" at the WOs?
What is the disadvantage for AA pilots to staple the WOs to the bottom of the seniority list?
09-25-2022 | 06:18 AM
#190
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined: Oct 2020
Posts: 2,671
Likes: 17
What is a realistic pay scale? Please keep in mind that pretty much every other regional has achieved permanent pay increases to match the WO rates.
What advantage is gained for AA pilots to "increase flow" at the WOs?
What is the disadvantage for AA pilots to staple the WOs to the bottom of the seniority list?
What advantage is gained for AA pilots to "increase flow" at the WOs?
What is the disadvantage for AA pilots to staple the WOs to the bottom of the seniority list?
2. For the airline no more need to throw money at them and cost savings from eliminating duplicate companies to do the same job. For the pilots more of a buffer for the next furlough and more seats to upgrade into.
3.. For the airline recruiting will be hard when you're offering candidates right seat in an RJ and United is offering right seat in a 787/777. For the pilots only bringing in the undesirable regional lifers with bad records who have been turned down by every airline and having to fly with them.
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