It isn't exactly 'hot air' when one is on probation. Nobody is going to get fired over being late once but I wouldn't advise anyone to push it the first year. After that absolutely don't tolerate being held to any predefined number.

 

But how are you “late” if contractually there is no callout time?

 

EXACTLY. Like had been said you're an adult, probie or not. Wanna be "safe" while a new hire on SC have a pad/hotel you know is within an hr of the gate. If you can't swing that, you could be even "safer" and just go to the apt if its looking like you'll get used and chill in ops of youre that worried, although I DO NOT advise it haha.

There is NO CONTRACTUAL CALL OUT TIME.

 

You are late by whatever made up time the director of flight told you during base orientation. He could also fire you for not liking your haircut or too many negative captain reports. Fortunately it doesn't happen very often and APA is decent at keeping the worst impulses of chiefs in check.

For the multi-bases I would expect far more leeway when the trip doesn't start at the primary airport.

In any case telling new pilots to play fast and loose with assignment reports doesn't seem like good mentoring.

 

I don’t think anyone said to play fast and loose. Depending on the time of day, 4 hours might not be enough to make it to EWR from NYC.

 

Absolutely. I wouldn't expect someone to even get a phone call over a EWR trip if they simply notified scheduling of their ETA. Being consistently 'late' for LGA trips would be a different story.

 

This right here. The newhires are being told by “first airline” guys on the chats (with 5 months on the line) that “wearing non MH pilot shirts are out of uniform standards”. It’s crazy the level of misinformation there is out there.

I had a senior 777 CA mention that you’ll get fired if you have a LTD issue while on probation. Uh,🙄

All newhires operate under the same CBA as non probationary pilots. For me, that means fly the contract but give a little more leeway that first year. So I’m maybe giving 2 flights to get to base vs 1 flight once off probation; but the contract is the contract and it says 1.

 

I'm not picking a fight, I swear ... but that is exactly what the Uniform & Appearance Standards says.

(IMHO, A rule that is casually overlooked / not enforced essentially stops being a rule, which is another story entirely.)

They don't even get specific enough to say that you must have had X chances. The things you must do? Exercise prudent judgement to avoid problems & notify scheduling ASAP when your plan no longer will result in an on time sign in.

Later in the verbiage of the commuter clause, however, a stick is waved that indicates if one happens to use the commuter clause repeatedly (not defined), then documentation might be required moving forward regarding available flights and whatnot.

My sense is ... as long as you are being a grown up ... no one will hassle you if, once it a while, it all falls apart.

 

I agree with what you’re saying but since you mentored the Uniform Standards…

MH Shirts are mentioned as “authorized”
MH pants are mentioned as “must be worn”
MH specific tie is mentioned as “must be worn”

Items not authorized are specifically mentioned as “not authorized”

Way down the rabbit hole we go but there is a printed distinction between what “must be worn,” what is not authorized and what is approved (authorized).

The general tone of “be an adult and there won’t be issues,” is one I find to be refreshing. I’m willing to bet the base CPs are more concerned with guys ironing their shirt vs if it’s a MH shirt or a CutAbove shirt. It’s not a slippery slope, a pilot shirt is a pilot shirt, we all know that. Guys wearing polyester dockers thinking nobody can notice is the reason the specific pants are a “must” in the FOM.

All this to say I agree with what your point is, just adding a point of context.

 

Well, there you go.
Thank you for explaining the nuance.