What this all proves is how difficult it is to anticipate the future of a particular carrier, and in an industry where they base everything on your seniority - unless you have to start over in which case it is worthless....

 

Absolutely. I just flew with a 63 year old F/O that went with Braniff out of the military. They were growing like crazy. After they shutdown he went to People Express. Hung on and went to CO, but things looked so bad that he left and came to US Air in the late '80s. Had he stayed he said he would be a 777 captain. You don't know what was best until you retire.

I don't post these things to take anything away from AWA. The guys that flew there have are proud of what they achieved and I get that. I just get tired of them looking down on US when for years they were nothing to write home about. Just goes to show you the arrogance of pilots. Waiting for them to pile on AA.

 

just promise you won't be the us air guy that goes around telling everyone that Airways makes all the money and Dallas and LA are leisure markets....

 

Ok and what was it from this document you provided that you wanted me to see???

AMERICA WEST AIRLINES, INC.
Schedule II-Valuation and Qualifying Accounts
For the Years Ended December 31, 2004, 2003 and 2002
(in thousands)
Balance at Balance Beginning at End Description
Of Period Additions Deductions of Period Allowance for doubtful receivables:
Year ended December 31, 2004
$ 5,807 $ 1,110 $ 5,430 $ 1,487
Year ended December 31, 2003
$ 6,767 $ 1,450 $ 2,410 $ 5,807
Year ended December 31, 2002
$ 3,216 $ 6,755 $ 3,204 $ 6,767

Allowance for obsolescence:
Year ended December 31, 2004
$ 12,254 $ 2,882 $ 377 $ 14,759
Year ended December 31, 2003
$ 9,261 $ 3,450 $ 457 $ 12,254
Year ended December 31, 2002
$ 7,249 $ 3,029 $ 1,017 $ 9,261

Valuation allowance on deferred tax asset, net:
Year ended December 31, 2004
$ 96,448 $ 55,343 $ 24,305 $ 127,484
Year ended December 31, 2003
$ 78,602 $ 39,481 $ 21,635 $ 96,448
Year ended December 31, 2002
$ 34,140 $ 52,587 $ 8,125 $ 78,602

Leased aircraft return provision:
Year ended December 31, 2004
$ 26,872 $ 6,645 $ 1,558 $ 31,959
Year ended December 31, 2003
$ 22,441 $ 9,000 $ 4,569 $ 26,872
Year ended December 31, 2002
$ 11,277 $ 17,636 $ 6,472 $ 22,441

 

No,the only revionist history is your assertion that it as AWA was in trouble, you guys were toast and that is the truth.

That's why Nicolau placed people where he did on the list. That's why Parker is running the show. If you could have raised the cash you would have. You couldn't, so AWA had to come in and rescue you. Like I said, it is history. This deal is different. AA actually has cash, AAA did not. Same difference, Parker has the plan to run the show and make both places better. I just don't want to hear guys talking sh## 5 years from now that AA saved us. Guess which pilot group of the three was not in bankruptcy durin both deals?

 

I guess you didn't read the information. Oh well. I provide proof for my claims, you and your buddies, not so much.

So that's why Nicolau did it? Glad you can admit it. To the victor goes the spoils. US never shut down, but give the guys that weren't in line for it's assets the best parts. AA pilots, beware of arbitration. AWA pilots want more windfalls!!!!!

US had more cash than AW, what does that say? You are correct that AA has cash and their Chp 11 is a lot different than ours, or what one for you would have been.

I never said that US saved you. I said the MERGER saved US and greatly benefited you. That it is clear that BOTH airlines benefited from the merger. AWA pilots have this idea that they were working for a SWA type airline and took a shut down airline and saved it, thus we should lick your boots. That's not the case and it's clear.

What has Parker said was most profitable?

1) CLT
2) DCA has the best margin
3)PHL
4)PHX

And LAS is gone as a hub.

I see history is repeating itself with your "which pilot group was not in bankruptcy" comment. News flash: AWA was once in bankruptcy. The US pilots then and AA pilots now are not in bankruptcy, the corporation were/are.


I can't wait for you guys to start telling AA guys that you hooked up with the Titanic. When will you start talking about their accidents like you did with us, over and over?

Class act.

 

[/QUOTE=Wiskey Driver;1373927]Ok and what was it from this document you provided that you wanted me to see???


[/QUOTE]

I think these three statements are enough to counter the theory that AWA was a super carrier that saved US out of charity:

“Developments in 2004
During 2004, extremely high jet fuel prices and excess capacity throughout the domestic air system began to negatively impact the low cost segment of the airline industry. As a result, several low cost carriers that had previously operated profitably, including AWA, experienced declining earnings. AWA reported a net loss of $85.3 million for 2004.”



“Our principal competitor, Southwest Airlines, and certain other low cost carriers have lower operating cost structures than we do. In addition, the consolidation of existing carriers, the entry of additional carriers including new low cost carriers, the creation of low fare airline divisions by several major airlines and the revision of traditional pricing structures by our competitors in many of our markets (as well as increased services by established carriers) has resulted in increased pressure on our pricing.”

“In spite of our diligent work to contain our costs, we believe revenues will continue to reflect the excess capacity that exists across the domestic system and fuel prices will remain at, or exceed, record highs. Given these conditions, we anticipate significant losses for full year 2005.”

 

Why would I do that? It's not the truth.

I haven't said that about PHX, just that there are more profitable parts of our company. But, I will admit what many east guys won't or just don't know about. That the western division helped the east become more profitable. It gave the company better access to bigger corporate accounts and a better route structure to serve the west. The east did the same for the west, only more as it also added the Star Alliance and the trans-Atlantic network. That's my whole point, the US/AW merger was a success and helped both companies. It wasn't a charity case.

Parker thinks the same will happen with US/AA, without the big cuts we took in our merger. I hope he is right.

 

You guys don't have to take my word for it, take Doug's. Do you really want to tell the AA guys that he cannot be trusted or doesn't know what he is talking about?

Transcript of Crew News Session:

WHO BOUGHT WHOM?

SPEAKER: Thank you. Just a quick
question.

Going back five years ago, I'm a West coast
guy, and I do a lot of commuting in and out of the
West. And I'm just misled constantly from the West
and the East. I mean, we are definitely two
separate airlines, still.


Now, I hear a lot of the West people
talking five years ago during this merger, so they
say, was there money exchanged? Did -- US Airways
and America West, who bought who? Who merged?

Because I hear it constantly from the West,
Well, we bought you, so we should control you.

So who owns who?

MR. PARKER: Who says that to you?

SPEAKER: I hear it constantly from the
West crews.

MR. PARKER: All right. Well, tell them to
call me.

Let me tell you, look -- that's not
accurate.

SPEAKER: Was there money exchanged? I
thought it was just a simple merger.

MR. PARKER: I'm happy to explain it. I
was -- I would like to hope we were past this, but
since it --

SPEAKER: (Unintelligible.)

MR. PARKER: Yeah, no, I know. This is not
meant to be negative on your question. I just wish


we still weren't having to go through this because I
don't think it matters is the real answer.

But I'm happy to go through what did happen
if it helps.

What happened is in 2005, first off, at the
risk of offending people, US Airways was on the
verge of liquidation, not bankruptcy. We were
already in bankruptcy. We were going, I believe
without a merger, would have liquidated. So be it.

I think that's where this some of this
comes from with the "we saved you" stuff. But you
got to finish the story.

USAir -- America West was not in
dramatically better shape. While we weren't on the
verge of, you know, going away liquidating, as I
have said a number of times, I believe without a
merger -- well, let me tell you. By putting the two
companies together, a lot of new money came in is
the answer to your question.

America West did not have the money to go
fund the merger or anything close to it. And,
indeed, I think America West standalone -- this


is -- this gets some America West people upset
because, you know, they -- anyway, whatever reason.

But my view is, and a highly educated view
on this point, is that America West would have been
bankrupt by the end of 2005.

If you recall, by the end of 2005, Delta
and Northwest both filed, and I don't think America
West could have -- I'm pretty sure -- I'm actually,
virtually certain that America West would have filed
bankruptcy because we didn't have enough cash to
make it through the winter in that environment.

So -- and then more importantly, as it
relates to America West, the reason the merger was
so important to America West is America West was an
airline that lived off a cost structure advantage.

Much like I describe to US Airways
employees now, how we don't have the same revenue
generating capabilities as American, Delta, and
United, who are bigger than us. America West had
that in spades.

A Phoenix hub never had the ability to
generate the kind of revenues US Airways did, for


example. But the airline survived 25 years by
having much lower costs, and those lower costs
almost entirely labor based.

So what had happened is, is you, you know,
looking around the world, here at US Airways, for
example, had gotten its labor costs through two
bankruptcies and a lot of pain down to matching
America West.

That did not look like a good formula for
the America West -- for America West Airlines. You
have an airline now that has, not the same ability
to generate revenues, and the same costs as the guys
who can generate a lot more revenues than you.
Those airlines go away.

So whether or not America West would have 15
filed, you know, in late 2005, like I believe, that
airline, I'm certain, wouldn't have been able to
stand alone on its own in today's environment. You
know, much like Frontier, was very -- it's very
similar I think to America West.

You know, small West Coast, whole --
entirely labor-cost-based cost advantage. And, you


know, Frontier went bankrupt. They are still
floating around somewhere, but, you know, they are a
fifth of the size they used to be. And I think
that's the best I think America West could have done
on its own.

So the merger helped both of us, and in a 6
huge way. I don't think America West would have
made it on its own. I'm certain US Airways wouldn't
have. And with the merger, what we were able to
do -- you know, which, again, I -- I think we should
all feel good about -- we were able to go convince
people that, while these two airlines on their own
are having trouble, we can put them together and
build a real airline, and all we need is cash.

And so will you, Mr. Investor, invest in
this?

Now, we found some people who wanted to do
that because they didn't want us to go away, like
GE, who had a lot of airplanes leased to us, and
Airbus, who had a lot of airplanes on order to both
companies. So they put in monies because they
didn't want to see us go away.


But we found some other, you know, just
true equity investors, you know, stockholders that
said, yeah, that looks like something that will
work. I'll invest in that.

So the money that came to fund the merger
didn't exist, and neither airline could have raised
it on their own. It only came from the power of the
merger. 8

So the merger saved both of us. So if
anybody tells you, We saved you, vice versa, they
are wrong. We saved each other. And we saved each
other by merging the two companies and building a
stronger airline.

And, again, I haven't had to say this in a
few years, but I have said it a lot. And the story
has been entirely consistent. So it's a little
frustrating to me to have to keep saying it because
I, like you, get tired of hearing this stuff.

It's just absolutely.

SPEAKER: That's exactly what it was.

MR. PARKER: It's just absolutely
inaccurate.


So, anyway, hopefully this will help. We
have filmed it. People can watch it, but that's
what happened.

SPEAKER: (Unintelligible).

MR. PARKER: But, anyway, but that's the
point. But, anyway, the answer is, you know, we --
we needed each other. And I know we still got a lot
of work to do. As Eddie says, we haven't quite
gotten the marriage completed.

But, you know, if we hadn't gotten the
engagement done, we wouldn't be here. "

 

I am going to answer/respond to your comment to CactusMike as well as this post you have here. First, this is the third time you have used this term "to the victor go the spoils". There were no spoils for a victor to get and that much is the truth that you keep failing to acknowledge. Slotting is what the Nic is and it was more than fair considering the bleak outlook on airways as a stand alone. We have been over this time and time again, airways was furloughed to 40% of its pilot group AWA was NOT and did not furlough until the east happened. Pilots on the AWA list that brought jobs to this thing are on the streets while Airways pilots that were furloughed at the time of the merger are now flying and you guys think this is fair. If you REALLY want to discuss lottery winners look on the east list today and start counting!!

Next you guys like to hang on to Parkers sound bites like God almighty has spoken. Look to the very document you posted and compare that to Parkers words! Vary different than what he said no isnt it?? Parker if nothing else is business man and will say ANYTHING in order to make the deals happen. One need look no further to this AA deal to see that he's at it again. "Airways cant survive without this merger yet we make profits year after year after year????? Relay you really need to read the stuff you dig up and compare for yourself instead of blindly following while hanging on to Parker's sound bites!

WD at AWA