eaglefly

Of course, should the opposite occur, not only will that drum be beaten even louder, but a nasty horn section from the East will blow in opposition for perhaps a decade. The AA pilots in the middle will end up deaf in short order.......

cactiboss

You can ask your mc yourself, they will not get involved on how east/west are integrated within the usAirways list unless asked to do so by the arbitrators. Email them, they will tell you.

alfaromeo

I only wish I had some capability to speak words to an arbitrator and have them comply. I would be rich. Instead, the only thing you can do is speak the truth and offer reasonable solutions to the problems inherent to each integration. There is no "one size fits all" solution, but there are principles that have been accepted for years and years.

One of those principles is that once the merger is closed, each pilot group's expectations are altered by the merger. One management team, one customer base, one revenue stream. Which pilots fly which routes and which bases grow and shrink are all irrelevant to management. They just move resources around to match their new network. Therefore, there is no way to separate out the results from each group.

That is why arbitrations back for years and years recognize that fact. It is not some magic concept that is whispered into someone's ear. It is just common sense and it is the truth. You can argue with me until you are blue in the face and it won't change the way the arbitrators view this. The worst thing a pilot group can do is to believe their own BS. That is what the East pilots did; they believed their own self serving propaganda and couldn't reconcile the fact that the entire rest of the world did not see things that way. They then blew up their careers for the better part of a decade.

So if it makes you feel better to believe that there is some way to separate out the financial results of the East and West in the last 7 years then believe that. Pretty much the entire rest of the world does not believe that. If you spend much time trying to convince the arbitrators of this self serving propaganda then you are not only not helping you are hurting your cause. Once you spout off garbage, the rest of your arguments are almost all assumed to be garbage. That is the real lesson. Speak the truth, solve the arbitrators problems and you will be fine. Not much of a secret.

eaglefly

They will argue how AA pilots and US Airways pilots from 3 SENIOIRTY LISTS should be merged. That was the status quo as per the PA. The inclusion of a third West committee doesn't revert the 3 committees into an integration position based on two lists. To argue from a standpoint of TWO LISTS would be advocating for the Nic....in fact INCORPORATING it before the final arbitration began. The AA MC will autonomously and independent of APA leadership argue on behalf of pre-merger AA pilots, and USAPA will argue on the behalf of East pilots should a West committee come to fruition (who will argue for the West to I'm sure include the Nic) or the entire group including West, if the PAB denies APA the legal right to award the West separate representation.

cactiboss

Dont take my word for it, please ask them.

PurpleTurtle

I am just blown away that you seem to have become so intelligent lately.

The layout of the playing filed matters more than the players. The status quo is contractually defined and will not be submitted for arbitration. Anyone participating in the arbitration will have necessarily accepted that.

It will be fair and equitable. Everyone will live happily ever after.

eaglefly

I agree with this. NONE OF US knows what is going to ultimately result and there are multiple versions of fair and equitable as there always is in arbitrations. Each situation is unique and "turns on its OWN facts" (see UAL-CAL decision P.44) and so shall this one.

Well, you seem to have gone back to claiming certainty. Hey, I get the moral argument, I'm just not convinced of the legacy one trumping all other factors. Arguably, this is the most complicated SLI in airline pilot history and breaks new ground on multiple levels NEVER encountered before.

...and if it makes you feel better to rest your hat on past integrations that had few of the MAJOR components present as this one that break new ground, then do that. I find your assertion that these concerns are "garbage" and somehow would draw the wrath of arbitrators toward punishment for even confronting them to be baseless and grounded in anger and yes.........fear. It seems you're still not taking your own advice and diddy bopping down the path of personal tangents and inflated emotion. When debating and discussing an issue with another, when I see emotion creep in, it leads me to believe sub-consciously the other party is truly afraid of loss of their interests. From one E.F. (EagleFly) to another E.F., good luck to you in the process. I think you have a great chance at getting your merger committee, but far less of one that incorporates the pure Nic.

eaglefly

Good drugs, brutha.....good drugs.

I was sitting around grooving to some Floyd when Jimi, Janis and the Lizard King appeared and mystically revealed the secrets of this SLI.

cactiboss

If this doesn't shock eaglefly back into reality, nothing will. Lol

PurpleTurtle

Eaglefly has a good grasp of reality. He begins with the status quo. Others jump right into taking shots on goal but haven't even arrived at the ball field.