Industry Leading without Profit Sharing??
#31
Are we there yet??!!
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,010
Competing with the UAL PS service..
The 321 doesn't like to go up and then once you get it there it doesn't want to come down.
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,230
Why only partial? Even if you are a new hire in training, you have the biggest dog in the fight. Or are you at one of the wholly ownes? Coming from one my self a while back, I understand and agree with your thoughts.
However, the wholly owns need to be on the same page. This crap where the company is transferring the Envoy planes to PSA should never happen. What is PSA becoming...the "Mesa" of the wholly-owns?
However, the wholly owns need to be on the same page. This crap where the company is transferring the Envoy planes to PSA should never happen. What is PSA becoming...the "Mesa" of the wholly-owns?
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
#33
Well...
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
and envoy is trying to hold the line by trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,230
Well...
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
and envoy is trying to hold the line by trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa
They will inflate PSA and PDT, people will be stuck in pay 12/4 with the promise of flow.
Envoy flow is about reducing senior payroll while creating savings with the 12/4 cap. PSA and PDT flow is about reducing payroll but at the same time growing the airline with the illusion of career progression.
The flow is a tool for Managment, it haven't worked at envoy in the last 14 years and won't work today.
I don't know what you mean by "trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa". We rejected the Bscale 3 times, while PDT and PSA accept the first offer.
PDT, PSA and Envoy are pawns in the Parker game.
#36
You just don't see it. The savings PDT and PSA are giving to Parker are the ones used against AA.
They will inflate PSA and PDT, people will be stuck in pay 12/4 with the promise of flow.
Envoy flow is about reducing senior payroll while creating savings with the 12/4 cap. PSA and PDT flow is about reducing payroll but at the same time growing the airline with the illusion of career progression.
The flow is a tool for Managment, it haven't worked at envoy in the last 14 years and won't work today.
I don't know what you mean by "trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa". We rejected the Bscale 3 times, while PDT and PSA accept the first offer.
PDT, PSA and Envoy are pawns in the Parker game.
They will inflate PSA and PDT, people will be stuck in pay 12/4 with the promise of flow.
Envoy flow is about reducing senior payroll while creating savings with the 12/4 cap. PSA and PDT flow is about reducing payroll but at the same time growing the airline with the illusion of career progression.
The flow is a tool for Managment, it haven't worked at envoy in the last 14 years and won't work today.
I don't know what you mean by "trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa". We rejected the Bscale 3 times, while PDT and PSA accept the first offer.
PDT, PSA and Envoy are pawns in the Parker game.
Last edited by Saabs; 09-22-2014 at 08:27 AM. Reason: spelling
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,230
You just don't see it. The savings PDT and PSA are giving to Parker are the ones used against AA.
They will inflate PSA and PDT, people will be stuck in pay 12/4 with the promise of flow.
Envoy flow is about reducing senior payroll while creating savings with the 12/4 cap. PSA and PDT flow is about reducing payroll but at the same time growing the airline with the illusion of career progression.
The flow is a tool for Managment, it haven't worked at envoy in the last 14 years and won't work today.
I don't know what you mean by "trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa". We rejected the Bscale 3 times, while PDT and PSA accept the first offer.
PDT, PSA and Envoy are pawns in the Parker game.
They will inflate PSA and PDT, people will be stuck in pay 12/4 with the promise of flow.
Envoy flow is about reducing senior payroll while creating savings with the 12/4 cap. PSA and PDT flow is about reducing payroll but at the same time growing the airline with the illusion of career progression.
The flow is a tool for Managment, it haven't worked at envoy in the last 14 years and won't work today.
I don't know what you mean by "trying to strangle us in their last rejected offer to aa". We rejected the Bscale 3 times, while PDT and PSA accept the first offer.
PDT, PSA and Envoy are pawns in the Parker game.
#38
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 207
Well...
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
There we have it... PSA and PDT will be used to whipsaw with AA. They want "flow", but don't realize that they just screw themselves and mainline also.
Good luck, Envoy is holding the line while others passed it. I would say that Envoy will be shut down in a couple of years.
I think you are exactly right. I for one do not blame them for doing what is best for them right now, but ultimately there will be consequences that will affect them. If flow through is the main motivation it will be meaningless as more mainline flying is replaced.
Secondly, I think eventually we will see an erosion of scope from all the majors in exchange for higher pay. Again, short term thinking from those in their last decade or so who see the direction of airline flying, larger regional jets and proportionately larger mainline jets but less upward movement for both.
#40
Gets Summer Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: AA
Posts: 667
Secondly, I think eventually we will see an erosion of scope from all the majors in exchange for higher pay. Again, short term thinking from those in their last decade or so who see the direction of airline flying, larger regional jets and proportionately larger mainline jets but less upward movement for both.
As for profit sharing, that's not a deal-breaker for me. It is theoretically possible to have industry leading pay without it. However, I would like to see some assurance that every pilot's bottom line W2 compensation is in line with his or her respective peer at United or Delta. If the company wants to contractually lock themselves in to paying at a level which would still meet or exceed what the other guys make, including their profit sharing, well then fine. But I think to do that would require a lot of complicated legal triggers to make sure it happens, or just a really high base rate.
I think it's probably easier for everyone if we have a system comparable to Delta's. Lots of money guaranteed, and if, God forbid, the company does well then we can share in that, too.
And no scope sales.
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