I did not have a master's degree, nor did I want to pursue one because it became painfully obvious that although geology was a fun major, it wasn't what I wanted to do in life.

Even that being said, those guys probably work a ton of overtime. I know I did...60-70 hour weeks on salary was typical.

 

That's just it...I really don't get hung up on what Delta or United makes. Good for them. Maybe if APA gets serious and hires real negotiators next time around, we can join them. Until then, it's still not a terrible job.

 

(still whispering) Yes, I remember that. History is history and the future is the future. No one seems to want to learn from the former to change the latter. What IS history here ?

- B Scale
- RJ's
- 7300 floor
- 2003
- Sham BK to strip pensions
- A deal with Satan (Parker)

...and soon the coup-de-grace.


(No longer whispering) The plan to get "there" likely involves making a hard decision of putting short-term self-interest aside and accepting some risk, i.e. rejecting this TA at the membership level. Alas, since we have no real leadership, it's difficult to expect the membership to look past their own short-term personal desires or rationalizations for their self-destructive behavior to turn this latest opportunity into anything different then the last several opportunities by APA and AA pilots. Most of my peers here are the same ones who have made all the previous mistakes of the past and not learned from them.

Heck, it's why they agreed to give Eagle 67 RJ's and we got 300 and why I'm here now.

Isn't it the ultimate irony that one of the minority of pilots here willing to take risk to change this pilot groups destiny of the empty past is one of the bullets that was shot at you in that past from a gun you provided the same source (management) ?

You collectively gave them that gun (Scope/RJ's), they shot you with it using me as the bullet and now I'm here to try to help take away the very next gun you want to give them, but yet you refuse to do that or even listen.

With all do respect, no one can help those that are incapable of helping themselves.

 

Does anybody know when voting will take place or when it needs to be concluded by?

 

You're happy. I get it.

The question is what the two of us are going to do with all those who aren't in 2020 and are powerless to change it ?

More then likely, we'll just feed on ourselves worse then this AA pilot group has ever seen, including the Hatfields and McCoys on the U side, each circling his own wagons and taking no prisoners.

It should be quite a show.

 

Huey,
As a retired military myself, I can assure you that the military has done much better on pay/benefits than the 121 pilot has since 1991.

The average 121 pilot has had their pay and benefits drug through BK court and whittled away by scope loss and use of contractors over the last 25 years.
Now the industry/company is on the cusp of making record profits for at least a few years hopefully and APA is trying to best improve their position with a highly fractured group for the next 6+ years.
It's not about complaining or whining. It's about getting the best compensation from the company that is possible during a time when the company is making as much money as it has ever made in profits.

Combining intntl/domestic categories means loss of jobs. No ADG means less efficient trips for pilots. PBS means less jobs. All of these QOL giveaways have a value and why shouldn't the pilots partake in the additional profits that this will generate?

 

What other objective way do you have to measure your compensation then by your peers? As a percentage of company profit?

Would it be a "terrible" job if you capped out at $80K a year with 13 days off a month? What's your limit?

 

I think that's pretty subjective...the real answer is "I don't know" because I haven't really thought about it much. But in the same breath, I'm not going to tie my job satisfaction to what Delta or United is doing. I know for a fact they have a better contract. But that does not mean that I must now be miserable over here at AA.

As for military doing better than 121 over the past decade...for the 2001-2012 time period, you're probably right. But in the longer view of history, probably not. And I'd argue that in the future, it probably won't be true either. It's likely that military pay will stagnate for a while. Military families will probably see their medical costs go up, and I predict that we'll see the military retirement system go away and be replaced with a 401(k) style program. They are already starting to roll back housing pay, and benefits like the commissary and others are also shrinking. People are getting RIF'd out of the military, even as they sit deployed overseas.

Considering that the typical military pilot makes around $80,000-120,000 a year for working probably double what a typical airline pilot works, I don't see how you think the military is running away with the "best job ever" title...unless you're only comparing it to the post-9/11 bankruptcy days.

 

Careful Huey, you're not realizing many pilots worked very hard at the regionals to get here, working often times harder than an average military pilot. It's all relative. Bottom line is everyone worked hard to get here, but the majority suffered through terrible pay. Do not forget that.

 

Each end that we used to get here has it's positives and negatives. My childhood best friend went to the regionals and I'm well aware of that work environment. And I wasn't pure military...I worked in the oilfield for peanuts for several years. Regional pay, plus 12 hour days, plus being on call 24/7 with only one guaranteed weekend off. I'm very aware of what it's like to be worked over and put away.