FreighterGuyNow

Dont you know PHL and CLT control the union now ?

Route66

So...you "....pay dues or be a member of the individualist mob, except to avoid the label of "scab wannabe" and to have some rep if I ever bend a blade of grass." just to avoid "name calling" or representation if you bend one??? There are five aviation labor lawyers to everyone one pilot in this profession to protect your position. Why pay the union when insurance is there for the asking at a lot cheaper rate?

Hell, even Marty Harper is there to protect you!!!!

Route66

That "HONOR" goes to West pilots....in PHX.

AB YZS

I don't see ANY downturn in voting NO for this POS. We will all receive big raises in a few short months. Also, the company asks are worth a lot and that is good for us to vote NO. Read all the material and have the understanding that Anderson is watching VERY closely. This will help us going forward. Say YES now and we're all screwed for possibly the rest of our careers. Say NO now and you will gain much much more in the very near future - a few short months.

Hueypilot

Have you read the valuations? Or are you using your own personal "price" on those items? Because regardless of what you or I think about those items, there's an actual valuation that's used in this process and it's a lot less than you apparently think it is.

Jetdriver7

Read the financial results and decide if the valuations are respectable and too expensive.

b73nav8r

Far be it for me a Delta guy to tell you how to vote and what to do. I will say that one of the things that's always impressed me about the American pilots is that they have never shied away from a fight. When management had your contract tossed in BK you had them begging you to come back to the table after the operations fell apart with delays and write ups. Clearly that situation worked and a new deal was struck. I believe you still have that power. Labor peace is now at the forefront of managements agenda. Why did Dougweiser throw the FA's a bone with the last minute gift of $ after arbitration? They want FA's that aren't as unhappy as they were before.

I can't remember a time when the Delta pilots last voted down a TA and sent it back even though IMHO there were times we should have. Looking at your recent mammoth earnings you may want to send this one back, roll the dice, and try to get Profit Sharing + pay rates. Our PS was %16.4 of our eligible W2 for 2014 (doesn't include ps payment from 2013). Some people estimate that it will be between %20 to %25 for 2015. Before Parker can get American running on all cylinders he needs the pilots on board. You were successful in the past while holding out for a better deal and I think you will be this time as well. JMHO. However you all vote, good luck.

Tom

flyhawk

Tom,

Thank you for your outside perspective. It is greatly appreciated. I worry that we will not only let ourselves down but rather the industry pilot labor as a whole. I just hope people realize what they are voting for and what the ramifications are for the long term and for whom. Regarding this, here is my post on another thread from yesterday........

Hi Everyone.....

I've refrained from posting anything about the vote til now. I just can't help myself at this point.

I'm just dumbfounded how ignorant some people are who continue to justify voting yes to this terrible contract proposal. It's very disheartening.

Just look at the numbers! I don't even blame the company at this point. They are doing this to us because WE COLLECTIVELY ALLOW IT!! Division, disunity, "I'm gettin' mine" mentality, folks just looking at the immediate gratification rather than securing better work rules and QOL, etc. Absolutely pathetic........

Managing expectations - this is the key to how the company is shredding away what work rules we have left when they could afford to pay out and realize strong labor/management peace for years to come. Even something as small as min calendar day.... Kirby points to the fact that it might cost $80 million. Whoa! Really? Go back today and read the numbers that are being thrown around in the earnings release. What a ridiculous drop in the bucket something like min calendar day is relative to the gargantuan profits/net income being realized. See - I'm not even mentioning profit sharing because our expectations have been managed to the point where most pilots just assume that's totally out of the question because Parker/Kirby have told us so. Sad......

Fellow pilots - Please, please think about for what you are voting. Yes, it's true, we will not be "given" what we want simply by voting no. BUT, it sends a strong message to the company, allows us to negotiate from a position of higher relative strength a year earlier, and we will still have a decent pay raise next year. The company may even come back sooner if they truly don't want arbitration. If they do, great, if not, I think we can all live with the green book, the pay raise next year, and an arbitration settlement.

Don't sell us down the river! The company is playing us for fools and we are allowing it. Lastly, we are not only letting ourselves and our collective group down if we vote yes to this, we are letting down our fellow pilots elsewhere and their upcoming negotiations, etc. by lowering the bar. What? You don't care....you don't work there? Well......you should! THIS will come back to haunt us when/if we enter negotiations in 2020 (assuming we vote yes). We will have an even steeper hill to climb at that point.

All I'm asking is to look at the obvious, look at what Glass and his folks are successfully doing to us at this point. People always talk doom and gloom about APA and the pilot group as a whole. I would like to point out how impressed I was that the group didn't fold and vote yes for Horton's first offer. It gave me hope that this group can do the right thing when push comes to shove. Let's clear this hurdle one more time.....TOGETHER. Think about the precedent we set now if we vote yes and how many people will suffer as a result...... APA, our collective pilot group, those pilot unions at Delta, United, SW, and elsewhere, and most importantly, you and your families.

VOTE NO and let's live to fight another day!

justjack

It is not, the APA who “is the sower (or sewer) of disunity” but rather, those who constantly berate anything that the union does while espousing Tea Party, laissez-faire economics, and politics. The BOD, meanwhile gets hit from all sides- from the absolutely yes, to the absolutely no voters to those who say we should not be allowed to vote, either yes or no. The BOD had its hands tied from the beginning because of the sh**ty MOU. Folks who had not dealt with Parker/Kirby before were convinced that it was the battered wife’s own fault that she was being beat up and when they got into bed with Parker/Kirby it would be different. Now everybody knows who these men are. I will vote yes only because I have been through arbitration with this company and I know how the deck is stacked. Still, I am sick about the loss of all hope that this airline could be anything other than a huge mess. I am sure that this contract is going to create more hostility than it is worth. But this is how Parker/Kirby rolls. They will spend 10$ to screw the pilots out of $9, just for the sake of screwing the pilots. When one thinks about the pittance it would have cost the company for a decent contract and compares it to all of the grief that could be avoided, one knows that this is about so much more than money. This management team does not believe the data that says profits at one point in time are predicted by employees’ feelings about the organization, that they work for, at earlier points in time. Parker/ Kirby do not believe in investing in their people, although the numbers show that they can certainly afford to do this. I am happy to see shareholders rewarded. However, American Airlines should share more of their profits with the people who not only generate it, but who have given up so much so that the company could survive another day to make these profits.

NERD

Then you have to vote no. Do you want to work at a miserable place with ch11 work rules and total pay for the long haul? **** on dougweiser and Kirby. They won't be around for next time. Your time is now. This is not 2001-2010. Consolidation has changed the industry, maybe not forever but for the next 5-8 years. It's our time. Take a small short time hit for the longterm. You're worth it. The last 10 years have had most of us in a Stockholm state of mind. Not needed anymore. Good luck, we(your peers industry wide are counting on you)