If only this were true. National has great influence over what individual MEC's do and even say. I've seen it in action and virtually all ALPA related correspondence to the MEC's affected pilots must first be rubber stamped by Nationals attorneys.

But this aspect is semantics. Even if we were to vote ALPA in and "they" (really WE) were to draw a line in the sand with Parker, he would simply punt and we'd live with our present agreement an extra 5-7 years which for most of us, means game over. Even with ALPA, from my perspective in feeling out a majority, I don't see any new spine being grown here. If anything, we'll melt to an even more amoeba-like state as an older pilot group is generally less risk averse then a younger one. PBS will be sobering for the streetwalkers though with all the open time now subject to dogfighting to get a shred for straight pay. The efficiencies of PBS will severely limit open time as lines are built more efficiently for the company (but less for us) and fewer reserves are required who will be worked much harder all saving big bucks for Parker. I think virtually all pilots should plan on 1000 hours pay per year or an average of 80-85 per month.

Enjoy it all for now, because for many PBS will mean a pay CUT due to inability to pad monthly pay by flying high-time. For the rest who like to drop trips for more time off, expect even less flexibility then even now, which is poor. I think the complaint box will be overflowing a year from now and we'll look back on these times as "the good old days". ALPA won't change that.

 

Didn't ALPA refuse to sigh CC Air's ratified contract, leading to its shutdown?

 

I understand they also overrode Envoy ALPA's MEC who wanted to fight AMR and drafted a letter directly to their pilots basically stating that since they only have stepping stone jobs, they shouldn't expect to move forward economically with forward pattern-bargaining type advances and to accept what's offered. I think national didn't want to spend resources.

It was a hideous misstep and they tried to tap dance their way out of it later, but to me the message was (and still is) clear and that ALPA national is nothing more then the flip-side of managements coin existing in a mutually symbiotic incestuous relationship and loaded with bloated, over-paid multimillionaire fat cats in the top spots. I read they even tried to stiff their own unionized workers in a page from airline management who threatened to strike. ALPA is a business just like the airlines, nothing more. I think they are impotent as true advocates for airline pilot compensation and QWL, now functionally existing as nothing more then safety advocates. I read the TWA suit and ruling and their actions in that situation were appalling.

 

This is only because MEC members caved to perceived pressure. There is nothing in the constitution and by-laws that compel any MEC to do anything that the ALPA president or attorneys say.

The ALPA president does sign all contracts. He is supposed to follow the administrative manual when doing so. And in this case, a concessionary contract, he was required to sit on it because the cc air MEC didnt comply with the administrative manuals policy in negotiating concessions.

This was a letter penned by an Eagle pilot who was part of the executive council. He was not speaking for anyone else other than for himself as an Eagle pilot. And even if it was blessed by the executive council, it has absolutely no standing on what any MEC decides to do. The MEC has its own funds it can spend on whatever it feels it should negotiate for and no one at national can do anything about that.


So will anyone answer my question? What is the APA dues rate?

 

So for all you anti-ALPA types, keep complaining about how ineffective the broken APA is and keep enjoying sub standard contracts for years to come. Because that has been APA's track record and will continue to be.

How much worse do things have to get before you guys agree to explore a change?

ALPA may not fix everything we need but I guarantee you they'll be a heck of a lot more effective than APA ever was.

FedEx is a perfect example. I just chatted with a FedEx pilot yesterday about their switch from FPA to ALPA. My question was, Did you guys see a change after that? Answer: FPA was limited in what they could ever get from the company (sound familiar? Perfectly describes APA.) ALPA is not limited and in fact Fedex pilots enjoy one of the best airline pilot contracts - something they could never have achieved with FPA.

APA is exactly the same. So, for those of you against ALPA, just remember - we will never contractually achieve what our dal/UAL brethren will. And if you're fine with that, then by all means carry on. Just don't complain when we continue to suck.

If we switch to ALPA and P/K decide to punt, no prob. Now we have all the leverage in the world to start exerting pressure, and we're backed by the largest pilot union in the world along with thousands of airline pilots with a VESTED INTEREST in our outcome, since we all belong to the same union.

The more airline pilots join ALPA, the stronger they become. We're gonna need a strong union to fight off the next threats headed our way. Independent in-house unions here and there keep pilots split up and we don't talk with one voice anymore.

 

I have no problem exploring ALPA, but they where at the helm when our pension was terminated, not frozen like yours. And the Nicolau debacle that their multiple changes to the merger policy led to. During our last years with them it felt like they were jack of all trades, master of none. If we change the name on the door,with the same in charge and same line pilot attitudes, the only thing we will change will be our dues rates.

 

From my experiences the realities don't support this.


We must be referencing two different Letters. The Letter I'm referring to was from Lee Moak in Fall 2014, IIRC. It was a big deal when it hit the Envoy pilot group. The general consensus was that ALPA had no problem throwing them under the bus just as they did the TWA pilots a decade prior. Obviously, our opinions on ALPA differ.

Last ALPA dues I remember was 1.95%.

 

R57, some facts:

- If we switch to ALPA, there exists the mechanism in place to lower our dues down to approximately what we pay APA today, maybe slightly higher but not the current ALPA dues.

- in BK, all airlines will get spanked no matter what union represents them.

- in mergers, pilot groups will get spanked no matter what union represents them.

- prior to 9/11, USAir enjoyed a very nice ALPA contract with good work rules and pay.

- the membership drives the union. In our case, our membership is so disenfranchised and split over APA's failures that nobody wants to fight. Under an ALPA switch, it is my belief that the AAL pilot membership would be reinvigorated in getting a fresh start and ditching the old guard: they'd have a renewed fight in them.

- finally, who'd you rather P/K face across the negotiating table and the membership? a weak, broken in-house limited association that constantly trades pilot jobs for work rules... or the world' largest and strongest pilot union with the support of the two other big gorillas (dal/UAL) plus all the other ALPA-affiliated groups?

Management's biggest wet dream is to have to face in-house associations that are limited in what they can get. Crandall had such an easy sell to APA with B-scales because he knew that ALPA pilot groups would fight it tooth and nail. He knew that APA would roll over like a hog in the mud, salivating over increased jobs while not having to worry about accountability from the other ALPA pilot groups. Slam, dunk for management. That right there speaks volumes.

We owe it to ourselves to explore a switch. Out with the old, broken system, in with a new opportunity.

I've got an awesome article on the benefits of an AAL switch to ALPA coming soon that will explain and clear a lot of questions.

 

The largest union signed LOA 93. A lot of what was wrong at LUS ALPA was infighting at the MEC level. How do you fix that?

You might be right, just the change might do us good and I'd look at it. I didn't like ALPA, but voted for them over USAPA.

Is the Admiral actually working on this, or just cutting and pasting?

 

One more thing AA73, and this isn't a jab. I think most people don't like change, but the impression I get is that LAA pilots are even more so. If they fight the F/O making PA announcements, how do we switch unions?