I certainly don't disagree with your opinion of the worthlessness of APA, but APA is US. IMO, so would ALPA be, only on steroids.........actually metamucil. The "pressure" point you speak of won't occur until perhaps 2022-2023 at the earliest. Traditionally, the kick-the-can/delay game is played successfully for several years while negotiations take place and it's usually about the 5 year mark that the boiling point is approached. Even if we attempted to move that up a year or two (doubtful), 2022 puts everyone here 6 years older and the average age of most F/O's in the mid-late 50's and Captains older when most of us will struggle to take a dump in the morning, let alone have the intestinal fortitude to jeopardize our jobs via a round of hostage taking. I just don't see a sudden successful battle cry from so many pilots who had no problem rationalizing capitulation for a few bucks while cluelessly (or otherwise) handing over what little leverage we had at a more opportune time (in reality, the LBFO process prior to merge, but to a lessor dgree, the most recent ca$h grab).

FedEx pilots had/have more leverage to bargain with, but what do we have ?

In 2019, we'll already have the cheapest pay rates, our scheduling system will have been wrung out like a dishrag with little more efficiency to be gained, our reserve system is already more then competitive, Health Insurance will soon be deeper out of pocket and getting worse yearly, LTD is a competitive joke and no profit-sharing like virtually everyone else. The only thing I see that's left to steal is scope (ostensibly Group 1).

I've seen this same situation repeatedly for 25 years and the outcome was always the same and more importantly, the behavior and the ability to manipulate pilots was always predictable and consistent. For me, ALPA was always there as well. I'd like to wish upon a star that things would be different for this pilot group next time, but I still believe that our last time WAS the last "next time".

That's the way I see it anyways.........

 

LOL !

We've spent more energy arguing with each other about uniforms and paint scheme's then joining forces to combat management. Once the SLI is evident, I firmly believe that division will increase and not decrease as emotion takes over and we become further entrenched in our self-destructive relationship with each other.

At any rate, there is one undeniable, immutable law about "gain" in contract negotiations and the concept of leverage and that is the other side must be convinced you are willing to take risks even at potential detriment. The world works on risk vs. reward and the two usually function symmetrically. We proved through rationalization that we are EXTREMELY risk averse in the past and I see no change in the future 6 or more years from now. The fact is, that since we can forget about the NMB ever giving this pilot group the legal tools of leverage we would need, some of us are simply going to have to put it on the line in the future in some way AND the "Association" (whomever it is) will also have to be willing to disregard the certified "cease and desist" letter that would surely be a part of that.

I just don't see that occurring and whomever the Association (which is NOT a "union", at least in the true sense) won't change that.

 

It won't be an easy road. I plan on engaging to the best of my ability and we have some good folks involved. It's worth a shot. Last time we had an ALPA drive we came very close...then 9/11 happened.

 

Eaglefly... All I can say is, United and Delta both faced similar situations to what we will face in 2019. ALPA delivered the current Delta contract back in 2012 and the UAL t/a extension last month. Both were industry leading contracts smack in the face of adversity. Granted, the last Delta t/a didn't cut it and it was rejected...but they're still sitting pretty while playing kick the can thanks to their last contract.

My point is, ALPA delivered for them. We would be no different. We would have much, much more leverage with ALPA than we EVER had with APA.

FedEx pilots made remarkable improvements when they switched from FPA to ALPA.

Continental pilots also improved under ALPA after switching from IACP.

We need to do it too. We also need to belong to a powerful union that has the political clout to fight the ME3.

It's worth a shot. Otherwise, we will continue to suffer under sub standard contracts since that is the most APA can ever deliver. I'm not ok with that. How many more times will we expect APA to "finally get it right this time" only to be disappointed once again as the good old boys club sacrifices work rules and such in exchange for "jobs?"

 

I've always appreciated your POV. I'll listen.

 

Hey, go for it. If the pilot group goes for ALPA, so be it.

 

1% normally. 1.5% during contract negotiations.

That amazing Airline Pilot magazine is not worth an extra 2 grand plus a year to me.

 

But apparently millions of dollars in substandard contracts compared to your dal/UAL brethren is?

 

As a side note, if we go ALPA, it could come back to bite junior LAA as any future merger/acquisition would be required to include longevity as per ALPA merger policy. If say, we merged with Jet Blue or Alaska who have no longevity issues, depending on the outcome of this SLI, it could end up a double whammy seniority hit for junior LAA pilots and in perfect irony (and predictability), a product of yet another self-inflicted wound if this drive were spearheaded by LAA pilots themselves. One could only shake their head in such a situation of hapless AA pilots who always seem to turn left when they should have turned right.

 

Very slim chance of the DOJ allowing a merger with another ALPA carrier, but under APA the junior will almost certainly get screwed constantly through 2020.