Elevation

We don't know what the future holds. Good decisions require access to accurate information, and that's all we can really ask from each other. If we get worst-case outcomes none of what we discuss here matters. If we get best-case outcomes none of what we discuss here matters either. It's that middle-of-the-road condition where we have to plot our individual and collective moves. In that situation, even if we make mistakes, we'll find a way to get by together albeit with bickering, drama and headaches.

KingAirKiddo

My point is simple. I'm not willing to accept that there has been *any* paradigm shift as yet. We are weeks into this crisis. As such, it's status quo. That status quo is that there are a litany of airline contracts in force, all of which are superior to the AAWH umbrella contracts by every single metric. I'm personally not willing to adopt the mindset that we should "fold" based upon speculation as to what the future may or may not hold. Maybe we, as a nation and global society, are about to visit Great Depression 2.0. Similarly, consider that maybe we are not. Additionally, consider that we are negotiating a CBA at a time when, not only are all the superior CBAs still in full force, but in which cargo is in high demand. Has UPS or FedEx--or Kalitta or ATI, for that matter--demanded a concessionary or cost neutral deal? Didn't think so.

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APCbot

Prepare to be disappointed.

KingAirKiddo

I've been a 121 pilot for 20 years, at 5 different airlines including Atlas. Been though furlough(s), cancelled upgrade classes, base closures, bankruptcy contracts, company failures, years of multi leg commutes to crash pad reserve, dangling carrots, dog and pony shows, 9-11, and so on. The disappointment is the only consistent throughout my career--which is exactly why I don't give a f_ck. Oh, I'm going to be furloughed (again) and have to work for a living? Oh, okay. Been there, done that...I ain't scared. But you know what? I want a profession that's worth a damn to come back to. So excuse me if I don't see fit to adopt some milquetoast, pussified take on (insert present crisis here). All in.

Elevation

I think everyone agrees with you, man. People are talking about managing expectations so we ride out a long blizzard of difficulty rather than a short squall. Nobody's asking you to sell-out.

nitefr8dog

Somehow management and forward thinking have never belonged in the same sentence.

Turbine1

Those with Turbine PIC and/or degrees need not apply....TSA and Compass pilots who do are getting the TBNT. Atlas wants people who’ll be trapped here forever with no opportunity to get a better job when industry hiring resumes. No fleet growth planned for the foreseeable future, no attrition and 1100 FO’s on property upgrade will be 10 years minimum. Plan on guarantee and Atlas forcing us into current book or less for our next 10 year contract. One will never break 100k annually until 10 years on the 747 fleet. All other fleets never break 100k a year as a FO at Atlas or Southern. Welcome aboard.

APCbot

Preach on brother

WhipWhitaker

Multiple Compass and Trans States CAs in class right now. I broke 100k my 2nd year easily with no OT, they must have hired me in spite of my degree. 777 fleet is growing, and has been. Upgrade will be under 4 years on the next vacancy bid. It isn’t all roses not everyone has had the horrible experience you have.

kodiakallstar

theres going to be a joint seniority list here in the next 30ish days. I’d hesitate to estimate who’s upgrading and when until that thing gets published. While adding a jet or two is a really big deal to a list of 400 it’s barely noticeable when you are on a 2200 pilot list.