Elevation

The economy is about to slow down too. I suspect the E3 program is a bridge to get the xompany to a place where they will be flush with pilots again.

A lot depends on whether we bailout airlines again when things do go pear-shaped.

160to4

I highly highly doubt there will be any kind of bailout of the airlines. I’d like to be wrong

dera

Straight from the top, it's not mgt who is delaying this, they want it too. It's AIMS refusing to do the work.
Company hates the current open time system, it costs them a lot of money to run. Computer based would be a lot cheaper and efficient.

C17B74

Recession wise we’ve seen what Trillion $ packages and lockdowns do and now we’re living it but not nearly as extreme compared to the majority. Bailouts wouldn’t be prudent, airlines released too many to early retirements having not known how long the impact would last and there are still plenty of routes canceled, flights being cancelled and iron not being flown. Timing is everything and I’m sure they’ve already figured out or are at least ready to turn off the hiring spigot when needed - time will tell and maybe they won’t have too. Granted there were other shenanigans in many sectors during this debacle, some honest and many not as government spending has never been accountable compared to us leaving a store with an actual receipt knowing how your hard earned $ was spent.

With the advent of foreign hiring at a massive rate let’s hopefully keep our culture regarding contract improvements and being on the same page. My comment to be specific is not alienating others from all walks of life which we already have more than most places which makes thing fun and interesting, but it’s our pilot group mindset and what we want to accomplish. Yes group think has always been a challenge so hopefully we can come to a majority group consensus on the way forward. Welcome aboard, be on aboard.

Just a penniless (yup, it’s how you spell it) guess but peak is coming fast and brings about major constraints/issues; therefore, that timing could bring about something or nothing, absolutely nothing. The schedule is normally on fire, but currently there are high dry winds with a forecast of no reprieve and they are just ecstatic to see brake’s released. Board is lit up with Red at least in my world…

C17B74

Make no mistake I am not an advocate of hiring from abroad using the current tactics to plug the ever increasing holes in the dam. It does not help this pilot group by decreasing the high blood pressure from abroad and leverage is lost bottom line. Also, make no mistake that those being hired are just capitalizing on an opportunity of which we have no control. It is a created loop hole that is not their fault and there is always an opportunity to learn from others the good, the bad and the ugly. As I mentioned before: Welcome aboard, be on board!

Elevation

Yeah, you make a fair point, and it's something I should clarify. I'd like to see us hire Americans for patriotic reasons, and so that when the hiring stops, more of our countrymen and countrywomen are supported. It's easy to let these points, especially if they are poorly conveyed, to metastasize into something nasty for our aussie pilots to live with​​​.

The problem is with our abuse of E3 visas in our hiring practices. The pilots getting hired on those visas aren't the enemy.

notthesame

Exactly this. I don’t think anyone has any problem with the individual pilots, but every single visa the company sponsors chips away at the pilot group as a whole.

So should the union protect the pilot group as a whole and publicly speak out against cheaper foreign outsourced labor, or do they protect the individual foreign pilots since they are now union members? I’d go with the former. Protecting domestic labor from outsourcing is probably a unions #1 priority.

zerozero

The union has spoken out, they welcome all new crew members hired under existing labor law. The union is does not support any further loosening of labor law.

The Aussies are welcomed at every new hire dinner hosted by the union just like all the other new hire pilots.

And just to correct the part in bold above: The Aussies are not cheaper, nor are they outsourced. They are "in house" union pilots with the same pay and benefits as any American.

An example of cheaper foreign outsourced labor is exactly what the old Stansted based AACS crews were and something we should always be prepared to fight against if the company ever proposes an offshore base again.

notthesame

This is erroneous. They are cheaper and are outsourced. The company is holding recruiting events IN AUSTRALIA. The company is sponsoring the visas. How is that not out sourcing? The company is doing that because the current pay rates are insufficient to attract members of the domestic work force, not because Australian pilots posses superior skills or because of some lack of US pilots.

Here is a quote directly from the US CIS website (emphasis added):

The E-3 classification applies only to nationals of Australia. You must be coming to the United States solely to perform services in a specialty occupation.

This is the definition of foreign outsourcing. Just because they're union members doesn't make it not outsourcing.

160to4

I called it. I said as long as it’s only a few guys, no one is going to make a bid deal about it. It might not happen here at Giant, but just wait until there is a furlough at one of the other E3 hiring airlines, and US citizens are on the streets