You have some good concepts, but some don't work with ACMI. If aircraft flew on a dedicated schedule then its a no brainer to say no extensions. However, when the customer controls the aircraft and potential reroutes or schedule changes, and you have the airplane on the other side of the world, extensions become a necessity. The issue is how to manage them as closely as possible.

As far as pay rates, the negotiation should be to increase the 747 rates and leave the current 747 rate as the new 767/777 rate.

One of the mistakes often made is trying to apply passenger and scheduled domestic service logic to a worldwide ACMI operation. It's like mixing apples and hand grenades. It is one of the problems the company faces on a daily basis with ground types who came from the domestic scheduled business and have tried to use that type of modeling with ACMI...like having crewbases. It doesn't work.

To get a better understanding of the different dynamics, you really need to understand what was AACS and how something like that could well impact the future.

There are ways to accomplish goals. One way not to is to assume that you are dealing with an airline management mindset. You're not. The management here was selected specifically because they did not come from the domestic airline revolving door. They understand logistics, supply chain and in fact can and will work with labor, provided labor doesn't walk in the door and act stupid (start thinking like domestic passenger airline groups). Do that and they will put up a wall. And if you understand the AACS scenario, you will understand that going stupid isn't the way to go.

There is a history here of two groups...one who opted to shove a hot poker in managements eye and one who stood their ground and worked for common ground. Again, understanding that dynamic will be imperative to future negotiations successes.

 

The flying Atlas does goes beyond a bid month. Look at all of the DHL flying...all scheduled. DoD flying...scheduled months in advance. I'm sure a small percentage is ad hoc but all of our jets don't just sit while the company hopes to maximize capacity week to week. No, we aren't DAL or UAL etc, but our contract could get a lot closer to a REAL contract. We shouldn't accept mediocracy from our own people. If things stay the way they are and folks are stuck in the 767 for years, the company will see significant training costs. The "big" airlines negotiate...why can't we? This isn't the same Atlas of 10, 15, or 20 years ago. The landscape has changed and there is a lot of room for improvement.

 

We need to vote out the current EXCO for a start. Their communication is horrid. The EXCO member in charge of communication (KM) constantly belittles and talks down to the membership on the 1224 site. Our Chairman is nowhere to be found… It's going to have to be "lead from the bottom" if any of these things talked about on this thread are going to be accomplished. If things keep going on the current track our EXCO wants, the "bottom" will be cycling through as fast as possible anyways. They won't even file grievances that they feel aren't worth it!!! Atlas will be the likes of Mesa, PSA, Republic, Expressjet, etc. Get enough qualifications to apply for something better...

 

Get it out of your heads that it doesn't work for ACMI.....I did it for years at one.
Worked great for us and the company (ownerss) still made plenty of money.

 

Wow, that is a harsh verdict on the ExCo...I have a few thoughts!!

1. Have you called the ExCo and talked "our Chairman"? I'm sure he'd be glad to receive your call and tell you what he's been up to...I've done that on several times and have always reached him.

2. Before you start flinging stuff at everyone else, how about taking a look around you...I can name a thousand instances that our own pilots have sabotaged our cause. Every time you accept an assignment, a sub-standard hotel, a sleepy van driver in Shanghai, etc and NOT call the company on their folly, you are an accomplice.

3. Have you offered to help? Are you on a Union committee? Are you willing to work from within and fix things...

4. Feel free to PM me and we can talk about this...I'm not too keen on airing our dirty laundry here. I'll be happy to tell you who I am, and we can figure this out...

I'm not trying to pick on you here...I'm just tired of the negative comments from our own group that don't really have the full picture...

 

i agree with 744driver. this thread is about getting hired by atlas, not a gripe fest on atlas or its local union. you can do that on the union forum. this thread is to help pilots get through the interview process with atlas, (if and when that happens again.)

fly safe and NEVER fly fatigued....

 

Thanks, recce...

Other point here also is that I bet you could find guys complaining about the company, the union, other pilots, the wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend, etc within any group...

I'm sure to some extent this is fine because the prospective Atlas pilots are learning a thing or two in these pages (even the last few!!) but a better place for at least some of the discussion is on a private forum, email, phone, etc...

Happy Holidays...
744driver

 

I agree completely. The thread is again drifting from a valuable hiring aid into a version of Flightinfo.com. It's OK to vent and our first amendment rights are alive and well (at least on these forums if not in our nation any more) but that sort of thing belongs in its own thread.

 

On the other hand, is it not prudent to also show the various shortcomings Atlas has so that an applicant can be best informed of what they might be getting themselves into, kool-aid notwithstanding?

 

The shortcomings are pretty clear, I think. These last few pages show the inevitable frustrations of working for an operation that markets itself as being flexible. And throughout this thread we have seen guys talking about the constant schedule changes.

Maybe the young blood will change this place into something like Delta, but I doubt it. Atlas is what it is, and squatting when a customer says "sh*t" is a fundamental part of its business plan and marketing.

It is a mistake for someone to come here if they can not accept that, and I say that as someone who does not like it. But that is part of why they pay me to do it.