captainv

most recent class was Feb. 3rd, 747

KYTBRD

WRT the discussion of "to autopilot" or "not to autopilot", there is a time a place for both. Each has its merits. Knowing when to use each is not so easy when egos get involved. We all lean towards what we know and do best. Coming from a mil background, I love to hand fly the jet. In the sim my instructor told me to turn off the autopilot and hand fly the next approach, my partner laughed and said "he's been hand flying the whole time". It wasn't showing off or ego, it's just what I felt most comfortable doing. For the next 2 sims the instructor made me use the AP from 250ft until just prior to landing. This was because this is how the 747 is flown the majority of the time. I feel keeping my hand flying skills sharp is important so I can if/when they will be needed. Having said that, I had a great 2 day trip to South America (quito included) with a captain who took a great deal of pride in his ability to do both. Once we started talking, he taught me tons of information about the FMS and VNAV vs the MCP and speed restrictions, etc that I hadn't realized existed. In some instances, it was information I knew, but taught with greater application and understanding. The mysterious black hole know as FMS/VNAV is my weakest system on the plane. But understanding it better now and knowing what its thinking will make me a better crew member. I've now started paying more attention to what the LEGS page and VNAV pages actually mean. Why a CI point exists, the difference between a LEGS pg speed and a VNAV speed restriction. 2 days later I ended up on another South America trip with a different captain to Quito. This time I was ready to program the FMS correctly and able to explain to him why I did what I did. On the departure I used the fix page to ensure we were above certain altitude restrictions - we weren't. I explained it to him and we used a higher TO thrust setting. Now this may have been obvious to others but to me it wasn't - until someone taught me to be more comfortable with the FMS.

On the flip side I had a captain tell me he wasn't paid to teach and went back to reading his magazine. I thought he was joking - he wasn't. Experience over the years of instructing and evaluating I've noticed that those captains who are more secure in their own abilities and knowledge of flying will produce better FOs. This is because they know the limits of the aircraft and have taught themselves how to not get in bad situations. They have also taken the time to learn the entire system, not just what they're most comfortable with. Conversely, those who aren't confident in their own skills and abilities tend to be more authoritarian, less trusting, and demanding of fellow crew members. Covering their own deficiencies through the use of mandatory techniques (which may or may not be in line with the FCOM and other regulations), configuring for you when not asked, changing the FMS pages without telling you, or engaging various flight modes "for you" on the MCP. Often not realizing there's more than 1 way to arrive at the same point in space. That's not to say that FOs don't need help, but discussing a descent and what VNAV path means is far different than taking charge at the last second and making him feel stupid.

Don't be afraid of the FO hand flying if it's the appropriate time. The individual is probably just trying to learn. But when it's time to turn on and use the AP to its fullest capability then make sure that FO also knows how to program the FMS and interpret what it's telling you as a pilot. Both skills - hand flying and Autopilot usage - are equally important in todays environment.

baam7700

KYTBRD - Thank you for that! That's more of what I would like to see and ultimately what I was referring to in my earlier post. Your contribution is invaluable and sets a good standard and precedent for those who are inspired to learn from sound leadership. Keep up the good stuff guys, we have an obligation to care for each other in this ever-changing career career and environment!

ATCsaidDoWhat

I'm guessing you've never experienced the joy of an AP that does a hard level off. If you have an FO who shows no signs of making a transition to a smooth level off, don't you as Captain, have the responsibility to speak up before the fact? Indeed, an F/O or anyone who flies like that is someone who clearly shows dimished hand flying skills and should be coached or get some additional training because it's pretty clear that they have gotten AP lazy and let their skills diminish.

Just to be clear on your wording...when is it you feel hand flying is appropriate?

NightIP

Or we're just trying to knock some rust off...

We have a very odd CRM culture here at Atlas. Many of us have several years or more on type, and should be seen as an asset rather than a guy "just trying to learn" by hand flying and asking the captain questions.

Obviously, everyone up front is still learning all the time, but somehow your post struck the wrong chord.

ATCsaidDoWhat

What the man said. Sorry you had to deal with the "magazine reader." There's always one in the crowd, it seems...

Talon1011

CRM has a lot to do with avoiding difficulties between the seats. There's a time when it's perfectly fine to hand fly up to wherever you wish. When leaving somewhere with no particular altitude or speed constraints we often do that. When leaving somewhere with an RNAV departure there is no choice.... we are directed by company procedure to hook it up. When leaving somewhere as a two man crew with several restrictions on the departure and/or a busy terminal area it's wise in the interest of safety to let the magic work and free both pilots attention to watch for trouble. The important thing is that there's no surprises along the way. Make it a part of your brief to state your intentions. The other pilot(s) may think of something you've not considered. As stated before, automation and hand skills are both required in this business and both are appropriate at some times and inappropriate at others. The professional pilot knows the difference.

KYTBRD

Not trying to offend you. Unfortuantely just like email, typing all of ones thoughts and expressions in TYPE format on a forum leaves room for unintended interpretations of ones thoughts and feelings.

I agree with you. We should ALL be learning something all the time. Watching from the jumpseat can be just as valuable as sitting in the front seat. Knocking the rust off is just as valuable as learning it the first time. I agree, some have lots of previous time in type and as an FO your opinions do matter. But, having said that, Atlas (and other major carriers) aren't hiring young pilots fresh out of an aviation academy. Many new hires without a type rating in the 76/74 have 1000s of hours of aviation experience and have the situational awareness to know when something is right or wrong. I think some folks tend to forget that fact. Each of us has arrived at Atlas from various commercial (76, RJ, 74, etc) or military (C17, C5, F18, F16, etc) backgrounds, but all have arrived with an aviation list of "been there done that, scared my self" situations in addition to the docile vanilla flights when we're thankful "nothing went wrong today". It's those experiences which we all bring to the table - with or without a type rating.

In my view - the jumpseat is a millisecond behind the crash of the front 2 seats. Each of us has a responsibility to teach and learn the entire system. The best phrase one can learn as an FO or a captain is "I don't know." Losing the fear of not knowing an answer makes you look for it (thank goodness for the iPad). Once you become a captain you are by default "the expert on the crew", an instructor. My point was WRT to autopilot or hand fly, each has it's own merits. Neither is right or wrong, but you should know how to do both. If you don't, then force yourself to learn your weakest area and become a better crew member. Unfortunately due to the nature of our flying I find myself in the jumpseat more often than in the front seat. So trying to work on both can take months. That's why I like the 2 man Sushi runs - 3 legs and more flight experience than 1 14 hr flight from CVG.

KYTBRD

I seem to remember a question regarding first year pay and thought I'd answer that since it is tax season:

Average credit hours/month 71 (jun - Dec).
Pay: imputed income + student pay + Jun (first month off of OE) - Dec salary: $48K
Perdiem: $10K

On to second year pay soon and a full year of flying. Yahoo…..

BTW I used pro diem and their calculations were $16500. So I have something to debut from my taxes.

For those of you who are starting in Feb you should be roughly the same. Depending on when you complete your OE.

Polarfr8dog

Well . . . .. the problem with the above statement is SOME airports now require ALL departures to be flown using the Autopilot. For instance: Our Flight Crew Operations Manual states that all RNAV departures in the United States will be flown using the autopilot. It's encouraged for all departures.

This in no way means I disagree with the stick and rudder skills required. However, I do think there is a time and a place to use them.