121 failure
#1
New Hire
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Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
121 failure
I just finished a failure with an untrained captain and who is going for upgrade and myself. The captain programmed the fms wrong, disregarded a checklist coming into land, then him turned the wrong way while I was working head down during taxi. How can I fail from this?. How much does this affect me? I had one fail in private training and now one now on my ATP checkride. I'm sick to my stomach. The captain wants to try and challenge it because it was caused by the sim instructor changing everything as we were walking in the sim then giving us 200kt winds so we had no time to set up. Can you even protest an iacra checkride?
#2
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 38
How can I fail from this?
How much does this affect me?
The captain wants to try and challenge it
#3
New Hire
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Posts: 4
I protested that something didn't look right on his fms but I could not pick what it was. With the decent checklist i called for it but I got lost in everything that it wasn't done as we were trying to get ready for a cat 2 approach. I absolutely could be better I'm not saying that, just it is hard to swallow at the moment.
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
I protested that something didn't look right on his fms but I could not pick what it was. With the decent checklist i called for it but I got lost in everything that it wasn't done as we were trying to get ready for a cat 2 approach. I absolutely could be better I'm not saying that, just it is hard to swallow at the moment.
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 658
I just finished a failure with an untrained captain and who is going for upgrade and myself. The captain programmed the fms wrong, disregarded a checklist coming into land, then him turned the wrong way while I was working head down during taxi. How can I fail from this?. How much does this affect me? I had one fail in private training and now one now on my ATP checkride. I'm sick to my stomach. The captain wants to try and challenge it because it was caused by the sim instructor changing everything as we were walking in the sim then giving us 200kt winds so we had no time to set up. Can you even protest an iacra checkride?
You said he turned the wrong way while you were heads down on taxi. I can see them easily saying that you’re just at as much fault as he was. Same with the FMS and the checklist. It’s your certificate at stake as well as his when you’re on the line. If you’re seeing something wrong you need to address it until it’s fixed. You can’t just say, something looks funny here, and move on.
Biggest thing is if this failure sticks you’re going to have to fix your story. Unless you’re at a carrier with flow, you won’t get through an interview at anyone better than ULCC. The failure is on your record so it’s your learning experience. Gotta own it.
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: B787 FO
Posts: 295
Out of curiosity, do you think you’ll share responsibility once online if the Capt. turns the wrong way or hits something while taxiing, or if he programs the FMS wrong and you don’t catch it?
Your job is to be the voice that says “we're rushing....let’s do a turn in holding or get re-vectored....something isn’t right with your FMS”.....in a 2 pilot airplane, the blame is shared....you knew something wasn’t right and continued the approach....is that how you’d you do it on a dark and stormy night when it’s not a video game and there’s 75 passengers behind you?
You need to own it....you screwed up. Pass the re-check, and move on.
Your job is to be the voice that says “we're rushing....let’s do a turn in holding or get re-vectored....something isn’t right with your FMS”.....in a 2 pilot airplane, the blame is shared....you knew something wasn’t right and continued the approach....is that how you’d you do it on a dark and stormy night when it’s not a video game and there’s 75 passengers behind you?
You need to own it....you screwed up. Pass the re-check, and move on.
#9
Pilot monitoring...
monitor
verb [ T ]
UK /ˈmɒn.ɪ.tər/ US /ˈmɑː.nə.t̬ɚ/
C1
to watch and check a situation carefully for a period of time in order to discover something about it:
monitoring
Supervising activities in progress to ensure they are on-course and on-schedule in meeting the objectives and performance targets.
monitor
verb [ T ]
UK /ˈmɒn.ɪ.tər/ US /ˈmɑː.nə.t̬ɚ/
C1
to watch and check a situation carefully for a period of time in order to discover something about it:
monitoring
Supervising activities in progress to ensure they are on-course and on-schedule in meeting the objectives and performance targets.
#10
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