ABX pilot buyout?
03-13-2017 | 11:20 AM
#71
Lead Guitar & Vocals
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Whiplash6,
Dont know how you come to that conclusion but im actually at XJT. Im actually interested in ABX but im not going over their thinking im going to get "Big Boy" wages when ABX is a contract carrier much like XJT. When you bid against others for your business its much different than actually flying your own business such as non-contract carriers do. Thats the big point I was trying to make.
Dont know how you come to that conclusion but im actually at XJT. Im actually interested in ABX but im not going over their thinking im going to get "Big Boy" wages when ABX is a contract carrier much like XJT. When you bid against others for your business its much different than actually flying your own business such as non-contract carriers do. Thats the big point I was trying to make.
03-13-2017 | 02:04 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
So what is a realistic expectation? This is an honest question to the group? Is it 75% the hourly rate at FDX or UPS? Is it the full enchilada work rules and retirement at other places that fly cargo such as UPS or FDX? Not trying to stir the pot just an honest question that everyone in the pilot group will have to ask. As for the history I fully understand its history (https://www.abxair.com/about/airborne-history.cfm) . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_Express .
I 100% agree you all are well deserving of a pay raise but the question lies in the details of how much? Also Im full in on the Strike for breaking the contract. If asking these questions are offensive then im dumb founded. As for the comment on skeptical characters I know a hand full that are currently at ABX that used it as a safe haven from ALPA. I stated that this wasnt all of the group but just stated that their is a big list of them.
I 100% agree you all are well deserving of a pay raise but the question lies in the details of how much? Also Im full in on the Strike for breaking the contract. If asking these questions are offensive then im dumb founded. As for the comment on skeptical characters I know a hand full that are currently at ABX that used it as a safe haven from ALPA. I stated that this wasnt all of the group but just stated that their is a big list of them.
What is a realistic price ABX should have to pay for aircraft from Boeing? Is it 75% of what FedEx and UPS pay Boeing for aircraft?
What is a realistic price ABX should have to pay for fuel for the airplanes? Is it 75% of what FedEx and UPS have to pay the fueling companies for fuel?
What is a realistic price ABX should have to pay for maintenance and parts? Is it 75% of what FedEx and UPS have to pay for those items as well?
If you want to run an airline in today's environment, you better be ready to provide a market competitive contract for your pilots are you better make plans to shutdown.
03-13-2017 | 02:23 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,772
Likes: 1
From: 744 CA
Thats a crap answer.... do you think Atlas, ABX, Kalitta..etc.... garner the same "rate" for their services that UPS and FEDEX do.. and frankly ACMI carriers are NOT in the same business as FEDEX as UPS....DIFFERENT business models built on different revenue streams.... pretty sure most of the pallets on a FEDEX or UPS aircraft have FEDEX and UPS waybills on them .. moving their OWN freight... now.. thats not always true.. but its almost ALWAYS TRUE that Atlas, K4, ABX etc... are NOT carrying pallets with their waybills on the pallets....
03-13-2017 | 02:39 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Thats a crap answer.... do you think Atlas, ABX, Kalitta..etc.... garner the same "rate" for their services that UPS and FEDEX do.. and frankly ACMI carriers are NOT in the same business as FEDEX as UPS....DIFFERENT business models built on different revenue streams.... pretty sure most of the pallets on a FEDEX or UPS aircraft have FEDEX and UPS waybills on them .. moving their OWN freight... now.. thats not always true.. but its almost ALWAYS TRUE that Atlas, K4, ABX etc... are NOT carrying pallets with their waybills on the pallets....
03-13-2017 | 02:50 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
Thats a crap answer.... do you think Atlas, ABX, Kalitta..etc.... garner the same "rate" for their services that UPS and FEDEX do.. and frankly ACMI carriers are NOT in the same business as FEDEX as UPS....DIFFERENT business models built on different revenue streams.... pretty sure most of the pallets on a FEDEX or UPS aircraft have FEDEX and UPS waybills on them .. moving their OWN freight... now.. thats not always true.. but its almost ALWAYS TRUE that Atlas, K4, ABX etc... are NOT carrying pallets with their waybills on the pallets....
Good luck to the companies that want to exploit their pilots by using sub-market pilot contracts to supplement weak airline business models. The future of these types of companies is looking rather bleak.
03-13-2017 | 02:57 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 611
Likes: 0
I don't think that is what he is claiming. Rather if you want to crew your airline in the medium to long term, for the first time in history you are going to have to pay market value for those crewmembers regardless of whose name is on the waybill. It will literally become a matter of survival for some carriers and if they can't generate the revenue to pay a fair rate they will suffocate due to the exodus of crew to those that can and will pay.
03-14-2017 | 04:29 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,772
Likes: 1
From: 744 CA
I dont disagree...... But the market value of a pilot at Atlas or K4 or ABX is probably not quite the same as one from UPS or FEDEX etc.... I do think we will see pay rates over the next decade approaching them very closely... but the fundamentals of the business models are entirely different and while I agree the laws of supply and demand will drive the cost of our labor up... there are limits we should certainly push them but its NOT an apples vs apples comparison and to believe that it is, is just folly.
03-14-2017 | 08:44 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Do pilots at Brown fly the -400F, -8, LCF, passengers, and LCF Dreamlifter all in one pattern going to random unscheduled locations in every continent during the same trip? No? Well if you want pilots to do that demanding pattern you better pay as much as the guy flying scheduled stuff. Also, Atlas DOES carry its own branded cargo through its route network in S America. Polar also has route authority and branded cargo going to/from Asia. The profit margin at Atlas and ATSG vs Brown and Purple proves that these companies can afford to pay fair wages.
03-14-2017 | 02:04 PM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
I dont disagree...... But the market value of a pilot at Atlas or K4 or ABX is probably not quite the same as one from UPS or FEDEX etc.... I do think we will see pay rates over the next decade approaching them very closely... but the fundamentals of the business models are entirely different and while I agree the laws of supply and demand will drive the cost of our labor up... there are limits we should certainly push them but its NOT an apples vs apples comparison and to believe that it is, is just folly.
03-14-2017 | 05:13 PM
#80
Banned
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 532
Likes: 0
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
