White Cap

First contracts are never too good. Every airline needs to be contractual with some group or another. Some of you know what a playground can be for management without a contract. IBT scare tactics? I am hoping that many NAC pilots helped to get the IBT this far.

akfr8r

It’s not a first contract here.

White Cap

I stand corrected. It took us 12 years of grinding to get a contract that is somewhat competitive for the AJT folks.

Hawaii808

It is a first contract for the 767. The 3rd 767 just came on property or will be shortly.

As far as 737 rates go it is true that our retention bonus was just rolled in to the current pay rates. However the pay increase from the LOA last year was pretty substantial. This time last year first year FO pay at aloha was $52/hr. The contract has it at $83/hr.

Sounds to me like somebody is upset because he Bid 767 before there was a contract and was expecting homebasing (why would a company do that when they are going to have two very well defined bases doing mostly out and backs to start).

akfr8r

I’m on the 73, bud. It’s funny how the HNL crowd seems to think they’re gonna be insulated from all the crap flying forever. You guys think you’ll never have to do a 17-day run around the world or any LRD flying because you’re HNL-based. You’ll come to understand in time that those distinctions mean nothing to NAC. If it suits them to run rubber ducks out of Hong Kong with HNL crews, that’s exactly what they’ll do. Or close HNL on the 767 and open a CVG base. Or run ad-hoc lines for LRD out of the HNL base. You should all vote accordingly.

atpcliff

EVERYONE is competing for the same new hires:
NAC
Delta
Kalitta
UPS
Spirit
Chinese Airlines
Emirates
etc., etc.

If any new contract is significantly below industry standard, it will get harder and harder to find new hires. If your company is small and/or has unusual requirements (like ACMI), without even a better than industry-standard contract, it will still be hard to attract candidates.
If your airline wants to grow significantly, it will be very, very difficult without a contract that is equal to or better than the highest tier contracts in the industry.
The Pilot Shortage will be getting worse and worse over the next 5 years, at least.

atpcliff

This has worked well for many pilots the past few years, and it will work even better now, and in the next few years!

crazycoconut

Isn't the point of having a contract with rules, that the company can't do the things like you stated above. They can only do the things you say if you let them. I think you guys are just used to letting the company do stuff because you didn't have language in your current contract to prevent it. Who would sit reserve and agree to only get paid if you fly but you guys agreed to it in your last contract. From what I know about NAC is was not too long ago you guys had no contract. From what my friends told me about your current TA you now have a vast improvement from what you had before and light years ahead of what you had just a few years ago. But seems like that is not good enough for you, you want to have an industry leading contract. But the fact is you are a tiny company with only three 767s and a handful of 737s, you can't expect to have what everyone else has. If it bothers you so much, why not go work for one of the other guys. Like you said , everyone is hiring.

As for what you said about IBT using scare tactics, well I guess you have not been around airline negotiations for too long. Yes, there is a time to hold strong but you have to have some leverage to do so. You seem to think that just because everyone is hiring that the company will not be able to replace you. That is not true in your case. I'll bet half the pilots in HNL and half in ANC have lived there for a long time and they will not be picking up and moving and they ain't going to start commuting from those places. So they will take what they can get from this contract and go after more the next time. Out of the rest, ya some might move on, but the company will not have a hard time replacing them. Look, in Hawaii, Island Air is out of business so where do you think young pilots starting out will go now? Commute to the west coast at Skywest or Compass or go to Aloha Cargo. And in your other base in MIA, well it will not be a problem finding 767 drivers who want to be based in MIA. First rule in negotiations is to not under-estimate your enemy. The company knows all the above too well so saying they will not be able to hire is laughable to them.

It sounds like this is your first airline and it did not turn out to be what you expected it to be, so maybe for you it is time to move on. But just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side. I have friends that work at all the cargo guys and even the ones at Fedex and UPS complain about their contract. Just human nature my friend, we all want what the other guy has. But with airline contracts you really just need to ask your self, "will this contract improve my life for the next 4-5 years til we can go at them again?" It is the nature of negotiations, neither side gets everything they want.

crazycoconut

just because a certain tactic has worked at one place does not mean it will work everywhere. Explain how Mesa has been a bottom feeder for years yet they don't seem to have a problem finding pilots.

A small cargo op like NAC is not the same as the larger more established cargo operators. Plus they are in a unique position compared to other airlines. Having bases is HNL and ANC were are local pilots going to work that are unwilling to commute 2500 miles just to get to the nearest place in the lower 48?
Plus it was not too long ago that the NAC pilots were working with no contract, they didn't seem to have a problem hiring pilots then with the crappy work rules they had. Now they can have a contract will vast improvement and you say, just hold out to get more, the company wil be afraid of the great pilot shortage. That is the most naive thinking I can think of

akfr8r

You think there will be language in any contract that prevents a company from opening or closing bases or shifting its assists between them? Sounds like you are the one whose naive, my man.