IBT Scare Tactics at NAC
06-29-2018 | 03:54 PM
#31
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I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a fence. It is what it is, and it doesn’t matter to me at all. I have no interest in leaving ANC. But don’t pretend that AAC has been doing anything more than sorting boxes for an ABX flight for years. Maybe management has been involved, but that’s about it.
06-29-2018 | 04:12 PM
#32
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Joined: Mar 2017
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I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a fence. It is what it is, and it doesn’t matter to me at all. I have no interest in leaving ANC. But don’t pretend that AAC has been doing anything more than sorting boxes for an ABX flight for years. Maybe management has been involved, but that’s about it.
06-29-2018 | 11:42 PM
#36
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Joined: Sep 2017
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ok I will enlighten you bozos since you all like to talk about stuff that you obviously know nothing about....
Aloha started flying a 767-300 under a wet lease agreement to open a new route from HNL to LAX 3 years ago. They wanted to see if they could turn a profit on this route with a new airplane type before they committed the capital to adding a new fleet. The pilot contract allowed a wet lease for 2 yrs before the company would have to use Aloha pilots on the airplane. As the 2 year deadline approached, NAC management dragged their feet on getting the 767 on their certificate and having the Aloha pilots fly the plane. The Aloha union agreed to a 1 yr extension for some conditions. Then the Aloha Flt Ops team started work on getting the 767 certificate on the Aloha Certificate and getting expedited ETOPS (since they already had years of ETOPS experience).
Keep in mind, during this time the NAS management never said they planned to merge Aloha and NAC. Then about 2 weeks before Aloha Flt ops was set to meet with the FAA for getting the certificate, NAS management decided they were going to get the 767 certificate put on the NAC certificate instead. Great management decision, only cost them 7 months more time and who knows how much money to start the process over again.
If you don't see how Aloha pilots are connected to the 767 flying , then you don't know how the airline industry works. wet leases are done all the time. When Aloha Cargo started the wet lease, they had the career expectation to fly the airplane within 2 yrs. At that time the NAC pilots had no career expectation to ever fly a 767. You don't think that means anything? well go back and look at every merger of the majors in the the last several years. They all had some fence arrangement based on career exceptions.
How do I know all this, well I know the ex-DO at Aloha and I heard the whole story.
Aloha started flying a 767-300 under a wet lease agreement to open a new route from HNL to LAX 3 years ago. They wanted to see if they could turn a profit on this route with a new airplane type before they committed the capital to adding a new fleet. The pilot contract allowed a wet lease for 2 yrs before the company would have to use Aloha pilots on the airplane. As the 2 year deadline approached, NAC management dragged their feet on getting the 767 on their certificate and having the Aloha pilots fly the plane. The Aloha union agreed to a 1 yr extension for some conditions. Then the Aloha Flt Ops team started work on getting the 767 certificate on the Aloha Certificate and getting expedited ETOPS (since they already had years of ETOPS experience).
Keep in mind, during this time the NAS management never said they planned to merge Aloha and NAC. Then about 2 weeks before Aloha Flt ops was set to meet with the FAA for getting the certificate, NAS management decided they were going to get the 767 certificate put on the NAC certificate instead. Great management decision, only cost them 7 months more time and who knows how much money to start the process over again.
If you don't see how Aloha pilots are connected to the 767 flying , then you don't know how the airline industry works. wet leases are done all the time. When Aloha Cargo started the wet lease, they had the career expectation to fly the airplane within 2 yrs. At that time the NAC pilots had no career expectation to ever fly a 767. You don't think that means anything? well go back and look at every merger of the majors in the the last several years. They all had some fence arrangement based on career exceptions.
How do I know all this, well I know the ex-DO at Aloha and I heard the whole story.
06-30-2018 | 11:52 AM
#37
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,897
Likes: 4
ok I will enlighten you bozos since you all like to talk about stuff that you obviously know nothing about....
Aloha started flying a 767-300 under a wet lease agreement to open a new route from HNL to LAX 3 years ago. They wanted to see if they could turn a profit on this route with a new airplane type before they committed the capital to adding a new fleet. The pilot contract allowed a wet lease for 2 yrs before the company would have to use Aloha pilots on the airplane. As the 2 year deadline approached, NAC management dragged their feet on getting the 767 on their certificate and having the Aloha pilots fly the plane. The Aloha union agreed to a 1 yr extension for some conditions. Then the Aloha Flt Ops team started work on getting the 767 certificate on the Aloha Certificate and getting expedited ETOPS (since they already had years of ETOPS experience).
Keep in mind, during this time the NAS management never said they planned to merge Aloha and NAC. Then about 2 weeks before Aloha Flt ops was set to meet with the FAA for getting the certificate, NAS management decided they were going to get the 767 certificate put on the NAC certificate instead. Great management decision, only cost them 7 months more time and who knows how much money to start the process over again.
If you don't see how Aloha pilots are connected to the 767 flying , then you don't know how the airline industry works. wet leases are done all the time. When Aloha Cargo started the wet lease, they had the career expectation to fly the airplane within 2 yrs. At that time the NAC pilots had no career expectation to ever fly a 767. You don't think that means anything? well go back and look at every merger of the majors in the the last several years. They all had some fence arrangement based on career exceptions.
How do I know all this, well I know the ex-DO at Aloha and I heard the whole story.
Aloha started flying a 767-300 under a wet lease agreement to open a new route from HNL to LAX 3 years ago. They wanted to see if they could turn a profit on this route with a new airplane type before they committed the capital to adding a new fleet. The pilot contract allowed a wet lease for 2 yrs before the company would have to use Aloha pilots on the airplane. As the 2 year deadline approached, NAC management dragged their feet on getting the 767 on their certificate and having the Aloha pilots fly the plane. The Aloha union agreed to a 1 yr extension for some conditions. Then the Aloha Flt Ops team started work on getting the 767 certificate on the Aloha Certificate and getting expedited ETOPS (since they already had years of ETOPS experience).
Keep in mind, during this time the NAS management never said they planned to merge Aloha and NAC. Then about 2 weeks before Aloha Flt ops was set to meet with the FAA for getting the certificate, NAS management decided they were going to get the 767 certificate put on the NAC certificate instead. Great management decision, only cost them 7 months more time and who knows how much money to start the process over again.
If you don't see how Aloha pilots are connected to the 767 flying , then you don't know how the airline industry works. wet leases are done all the time. When Aloha Cargo started the wet lease, they had the career expectation to fly the airplane within 2 yrs. At that time the NAC pilots had no career expectation to ever fly a 767. You don't think that means anything? well go back and look at every merger of the majors in the the last several years. They all had some fence arrangement based on career exceptions.
How do I know all this, well I know the ex-DO at Aloha and I heard the whole story.
06-30-2018 | 12:23 PM
#38
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Joined: May 2017
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Listen, it’s a stupid argument anyway. Nobody is saying the fence situation shouldn’t be the way it is. The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guys’ claim to that flying definitely wasn’t set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.
The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didn’t want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They aren’t. That’s why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. What’s done is done.
What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.
The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didn’t want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They aren’t. That’s why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. What’s done is done.
What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.
06-30-2018 | 12:30 PM
#39
El Capitan
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Listen, it’s a stupid argument anyway. Nobody is saying the fence situation shouldn’t be the way it is. The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guys’ claim to that flying definitely wasn’t set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.
The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didn’t want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They aren’t. That’s why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. What’s done is done.
What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.
The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didn’t want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They aren’t. That’s why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. What’s done is done.
What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.
06-30-2018 | 06:28 PM
#40
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 433
Likes: 31
Listen, it’s a stupid argument anyway. Nobody is saying the fence situation shouldn’t be the way it is. The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guys’ claim to that flying definitely wasn’t set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.
The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didn’t want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They aren’t. That’s why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. What’s done is done.
What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.
The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didn’t want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They aren’t. That’s why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. What’s done is done.
What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.
The way this 767 program has been run so far has cost everyone a bunch of time and money unnecessarily. Hopefully the dust settles soon and AAC/NAC pilots will be flying the 767 as one pilot group.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the Fences (which really only protect the initial group of 767 pilot slots for each base) were negotiated and arbitrated in the SLI committee. Karp had nothing to do with it.
I have my own opinions on the JCBA. Some good some bad. I think our union reps worked incredibly hard to get a contract that they believe is acceptable to the majority of the pilot group and they should be commended for their efforts. It is now up to each pilot to become educated on what’s in the JCBA and decide whether it’s acceptable to them or not and vote accordingly. I look forward to seeing the results.
Aloha
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