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Old 05-04-2007, 08:40 PM   #21  
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Yeah, whatever. Do you know what the distribution of invitees were in that telephone poll?
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Old 05-04-2007, 09:07 PM   #22  
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Default This poll hasn't even closed yet.

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You bet... we're going to be talking about this last poll - with the change in password procedures - in twenty years. My distinct impression is that the poll was merely window-dressing. The policy was already decided. Am I wrong? Answer me this: 52% wasn't enough for Dave. What percentage WOULD have been enough? 55? 60? 65? This is called shooting a moving target.
Our union has decided our position before the poll closes on MAY 10th. A poll that allowed everyone to have a voice. I think I missed something in Union 101. My loss of confidence is staggering.
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Old 05-04-2007, 09:56 PM   #23  
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I think I missed something in Union 101. My loss of confidence is staggering.
Again--down the road...this sentiment could be as detrimental to our long term success as the NPRM could be. It is EXACTLY why we need our union leadership...while we use a REPUBLIC model...to make sure DEMOCRATIC principals are demonstrated.

Old guys--this loss of confidence affects you too. If you want someone who isn't going to sell you out for 20 pieces of silver the day you retire, we need to find a way if this passes to keep everyone onboard. The "get used to it...senioirity rules...shut your yap we know what's best for you..." type vibe will destroy the union. It's hard enough to make things work with 97% membership and a (general) consensus. I honestly believe this has more potential to damage the union than even a strike vote. Whatever side "wins" (and I've often said its a zero sum game) better find a way to extend the olive branch to the other side--pronto...or we are heading towards a real division. The FOs on the property won't just "get used to it..." or "forget about it..." after a week. Don't believe me? How many guys have heard a pre-88 FedEx guy say "I still haven't gotten back my original seniority yet..."

Its going to take some serious work on all sides to hang together. I haven't seen ANYTHING from the side with the large lead in the 3rd quarter yet that indicates they will be gracious winners.
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:08 PM   #24  
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I can't believe anyone believes this poll.....for that matter any that the union has done....
I'm 57 and I don't believe that poll...It all depends on how you ask the question and who you ask....The union NEVER releases the data ...I wonder why?
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Old 05-04-2007, 10:28 PM   #25  
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They pass this wherein the over 60 guys get rights back to a front seat...I become a non-member. End of discussion.
So, if things mostly controlled by the federal government don't go your way, you'll become a non-member? I don't always agree with ALPA policy, going back to events almost 20 years ago. In fact, I voted against going back to them. But I sure didn't up and quit when things didn't go my way.
Well, under criteria established in another thread, you are acting Scabalicious. So don't let the door hit you in the A** on the way out. All the rest of you like-minded youngsters, too.
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:06 PM   #26  
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So don't let the door hit you in the A** on the way out. All the rest of you like-minded youngsters, too.
Is that what you want HIM to say to you or about you in 2020 when the company decides retirees no longer qualify for (fill in which one) benefits? Do you want guys on the property then that support not only those behind them but those that retired in front of them too?


Plenty of us will TUG on those guys to stay and support. Are you going to try to do anything about this change but say "**** and deal with it?" If you do that...guys like 42GO who seem to delight in publically attacking and undermining the MEC are going to have an easier and easier time dismantling the trust and effectiveness garnered 2002-2006.
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:19 PM   #27  
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I have walked the line in a couple of cities, worn a red lanyard and been extremely pro union all aliong. However this latest Webb letter smacks of personal agendas and back room collusion, all in defiance of the majority of members in a supposedly democratic institution. Historically, When the powers that be become dictators, a revolt is most definitely called for.
I am open to suggestions, to include hamfisted's fix.
anybody else?-
Los1
This and Hamfisted comments reek of ignorance and emotionalism. It is called the power of the vote my friends. Vote 'em out.

If you are pro union LOS, then use the union system. There are ways to recall a sitting MEC chairman.

You had me 'till you said I am open to Hamfisted's fix. That has quitter and loser written all over it.
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:46 PM   #28  
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Originally Posted by 42GO View Post
I can't believe anyone believes this poll.....for that matter any that the union has done....
I'm 57 and I don't believe that poll...It all depends on how you ask the question and who you ask....The union NEVER releases the data ...I wonder why?
Your 57 and I suppose you can't believe your Union got you a pay raise and an increased B Fund and enhaced retirement benefits with an increased multiplier for pilots over 50 (thats you BTW), ) and retiree medical on this last contract..........and your signing bonus (or retro or what ever you want to call it)

AS For the latter part of your post, Thats BS and you know it. We have had 4 surveys done at FDX that I know of by the Wilson Center.


The most recent FDX only poll was the Pre-contact survey taken in 2003/2004. They held that data for Strategic reasons because they didn't want to give #'s to the company, but later released it.

The Survey before that was the FPA/ALPA merger poll in 2001. The Wilson center called that one right on the money.........they released that data.

The Poll before that was if ALPA #1 was going to lose to FPA and be decertified. There was no need to release that data, but the wilson center was within 1% of the actual vote.

The Poll before that was to determine if the Fedex pilots wanted to Unionize and with whom. That one was done in 1992. The Wislon center called that one within 2% as I recall.

This most recent telephone poll by the Wilson Center was ALPA wide, not just FDX.
There is no reason to lie about the data and quite frankly, the results weren't all that surprising and you know it.
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Old 05-04-2007, 11:53 PM   #29  
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Is that what you want HIM to say to you or about you in 2020 when the company decides retirees no longer qualify for (fill in which one) benefits? Do you want guys on the property then that support not only those behind them but those that retired in front of them too?

If he thinks any issue's affects on him are important enough to bail out of the union, I don't give a rats what he says in 2020, because he'll be a non-member. He's using the same rational that all non-members or scabs use. "Because of my situation, I'm going to ignore the rest of you and do my own thing." And as many have said in the past, I don't plan on relying on the company for my financial well-being after I hit the door. If the A plan and medical are there, great, but I'm sure not counting on it.

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Are you going to try to do anything about this change but say "**** and deal with it?"

And of course, you assume I'm in the 52% that want to keep age 60. I could possibly be welcoming the changes.

Last edited by fdx727pilot; 05-04-2007 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 05-05-2007, 03:41 AM   #30  
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Quote:
Old guys--this loss of confidence affects you too.
Let me bottom-line this for you:

If you're a captain now, you'll be a captain for five more years.

If you're an F/O, you'll be an F/O for five more years.



Those in the first group run the union, the blue-ribbon commission and the company. They can talk about unity, the good of the profession and how the youngsters need to take it like a man - it's easy, because someone else's ox is being gored.

Those in the second group are going to lose tens of thousands of dollars, or more, over this. But someday WE'LL run the union, the blue-ribbon commissions and the company. And the elephant never forgets.

Oh and if Capt. Webb gets his way, about 100 of the junior guys in the first group will get bumped back to the second group.....

Last edited by Huck; 05-05-2007 at 03:48 AM.
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