ULCC vs ACMI

Reply Subscribe

Page 5 of 11

Last »

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

02-25-2020, 06:22 AM

#41

Cujo665

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2014

Position: Semi-Retired...

Posts: 3,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC135

That seems like a moot point considering the min guarantee is probably the lowest in the industry. I don't think you can credit 90 and still have 15-18 days off like you can at B6 and NK. The retirement is also less than 1/3 that of most ULCC.

you can do 80 hour guarantees on the same number of on days. The vast majority of the flying is on the 64 hour guarantee. many are very happy flying 25-45 hours for 64 guarantee

nobody is saying it is legacy quality, that’s ridiculous, it is however on par with several of the LCC’s. If you’re a guy that likes to get large blocks of time off routinely then it’s actually fantastic. We don’t really have guys leaving for LCC’s anymore except when they live in the base. Even then it’s mostly junior FO’s. Seniority list comes out monthly and it’s just retirements moving people up mostly now. 30% fleet growth on the 767, and the seniority list has just about doubled since 2018. The retirement does need to be fixed. We have a grand total of 1 union grievance pending, how many does your carrier have going?

The OP’s question is best answered by asking what lifestyle does he want? There are advantages to both. If he can live in base I’d give the nod to the LCC myself...
mid his choice is ACMI vs ULCC then the nod goes to the better ACMI’s like Kalitta, Omni, and ATI

Last edited by Cujo665; 02-25-2020 at 06:38 AM.

02-25-2020, 06:49 AM

#42

EVVovernight

Line Holder

Thread Starter

Joined APC: Feb 2020

Posts: 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by goinaround

Yeah the min guarantee is crap. Having said that, I've been doing the K4 thing for a couple years and I've never come in at min guarantee (because I always bid reserve....welcome to the upside-down) In fact, I've credited less than 80 hours exactly twice. But....if you bid a line worth min guarantee.....and they keep you on that line....yeah, min guarantee (plus a few hours for the ride to and from work). I'm hopeful that will be addressed as the negotiators work on the new CBA....but I seriously doubt we'd ever see anything like the UPS 81 hr guarantee. I make it home a day or two early pretty often as well. I was supposed to work 9 days this month and went home day 6 (vacation month). Can't count on that though....

I mean....if you're comfortable at an LCC with a decent commute....you're not going to come here. But the reciprocal is true for a large percentage of folks on the list here right now. Having tasted commuting and now this gig....I turned down a job at a big east coast LCC due to the commute. People's outlook on ACMI flying differs significantly depending on what shop you came from. I worked for another ACMI previous to this.....and the difference is night and day. People here love to throw stones at other folks' career choices. You just gotta do what makes you happy.

But...if the guy is asking ACMI or LCC....as of this day I'd have to advise LCC. 16% DC says it all. Ask me again in a year.

Thank you. Sounds like LCCs are better 'in general'. But select ACMIs provide superior pay and QOL

02-25-2020, 06:54 AM

#43

goinaround

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Apr 2016

Posts: 831

Quote:

Originally Posted by EVVovernight

Thank you. Sounds like LCCs are better 'in general'. But select ACMIs provide superior pay and QOL

the pay is not superior at an acmi.....but it’s not bad. the QOL
has everything to do with your preferences and where you live.

02-25-2020, 12:55 PM

#44

Aeirum

Banned

Joined APC: Mar 2019

Posts: 229

Keep in mind the recent optimism concerning ACMI’s is also due to people crediting much above guarantee which has changed. If you compare an ACMI to an LCC at minimum guarantee including differences in retirement contributions the effective hourly ratio is 1:0.85.

K4s year one at $116 is equivalent to $98 at an LCC. Still good but the scales tip following year one. Upgrade will likely be quicker at several LCC’s as well.

02-27-2020, 05:05 AM

#45

Cujo665

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Feb 2014

Position: Semi-Retired...

Posts: 3,132

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeirum

upgrade at Omni is pretty much when you meet minimums currently. ATI is only a 2-3 year upgrade as well.

02-27-2020, 05:44 AM

#46

LeTourneauAlumn

Line Holder

Joined APC: Apr 2015

Posts: 67

Airline: K4
Age: 36
Plane: 767 Capt
Last year pay: 205k
Hours flown: 275
Days at home: average 16 straight per month

New contract on the way for 2020; you couldnt pay me 300k+ to leave right now at my seniority. I anticipate 15-16% DC coming and I will never go thru an airport again switching planes for 4 days in a row dealing with people and commuting. I prefer my 1st class seat to and from home...

Kalitta has become a career destination for most guys. With the 777 growth theres no telling what great adventures are going to happen the next 3-5 years...

02-27-2020, 07:05 AM

#47

lionflyer

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Dec 2008

Posts: 351

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeTourneauAlumn

New contract ain’t gonna happen in 2020.

02-27-2020, 07:20 AM

#48

Aeirum

Banned

Joined APC: Mar 2019

Posts: 229

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeTourneauAlumn

This thread isn't about validating existing K4 pilots choice. It is about the viability of ACMI vs ULCC for prospective NEW employees. You are correct in saying that "Kalitta has become a career destination for most guys." However this isn't for the typical reasons one might find with other career destinations. The top third of the seniority list is your old fashioned ACMI crowd who isn't going anywhere. Next you have a large crowd of people who got hired during rapid expansion and went from an RJ to 747 CA in two years and now have golden handcuffs. Between 4-600 you'll find lifer ASA guys who were content at a regional. These older folks are even more content here at K4 and aren't going anywhere. The bottom of the list is a revolving door.

So I'd say this to a prospective young new hire. Get your PIC first. Go to a ULCC or higher tier ACMI with rapid growth. Keep your big 5 updated. If you're happy hanging your hat at a second tier company I'd choose a ULCC/LCC. The ACMI world is much like the regional world where the individual carriers serve their masters and todays victor will be tomorrows loser. Look at ATLAS and ABX.

02-27-2020, 09:40 AM

#49

Silver02ex

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Sep 2005

Posts: 1,735

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeTourneauAlumn

For those who wants to see the difference:

Spirit 5th year CA pay (commuter)

$253,659 (base+ anything above guarantee)
Per diem - $6,220
DC - $30,675
Block - 605

Total compensation- $290,554

Picked up a few 200% trip this summer

Home 15-16 days on average, and commuting 3 times each month. All reserve time is commute able (both ends) along with most trips (during a regular line months). Many of our CA who live in base was pushing $300K + DC and more days at home. LTD own occupation until 65 is another big plus.

Upgrades is under 3 years, with current fleet of 145 ish and will be around 300 + 50 option by 2027.

02-27-2020, 10:16 AM

#50

Benver

Line Holder

Joined APC: Jun 2018

Posts: 64

i did the move from Atlas to an LCC. It is a little bit of a lateral move meaning I did not go to a Legacy or FDX/UPS , BUT contractually is a major improvement in several aspects.
1. not 17 days on a row on duty
2.i can still get a lot of days off in a row IF I CHOOSE SO
3. 1st year pay-rate cut, BUT many more credit hours per month and 2nd year pay it will be higher than if i had stayed at Atlas on 3rd year pay.... plus upgrade here is at 3yrs (or less)...so...
4. I did my homework and generally no ACMI has a better 401k than any LCC (over 12% defined contirbution)
5. no severe and constant changes in circadian rhythm
plus everybody is happy here.... i enjoyed the experience at atlas, but most of the pilots were miserable

so far so good... i hope this helps