Leave a “Big Three” for FedEx/UPS (CV19)?
05-22-2020, 05:35 PM
#72
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Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by Vernon Demerest
Huh? I’m UAL and make 282 an hour on the 737. I believe the 757-200 pays the same but the -300 pays more (as does the 767-300) and the 767-400 even more. Blended rate would be over 300 an hour I’d guess.
05-22-2020, 06:11 PM
#73
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
Now ask how long and at what longevity does one need to be at to hold those rates even pre covid-19 at UA, DL, and AA. As for UPS they went to a "it all pays the same model". That has its pros and cons also but is a realistic argument to say it may be the best with an operation like theirs which has a much more equally weighted wide body to narrow body count as compared to us at FedEx.
Originally Posted by opt0712
Exactly. There are many a local junior 75 CA sitting RA for $250+ an hour. What Major provides that opportunity under 3.5 years?
05-22-2020, 06:35 PM
#74
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
If you had the highest narrowbody pay at the leading edge of pattern bargaining, and everybody else patterned off your contract to exceed your rate (which I believe is what happened with DAL1, SWA1, UPS, DAL2, SWA2, UAL “me too”, and AA 8% “industry standard” raise) is lagging them at the end of that bargaining cycle really something worth being ashamed of?
05-22-2020, 06:57 PM
#75
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,622
Originally Posted by PA31
I think what drives it junior is WB FO pay isn’t that much less with better seniority than NB CA.
Originally Posted by Noworkallplay
They are now but were not when the CBA was ratified in 2015. General statement: I love when people compare 5 year old contracts to current contracts that used ours to pattern off of. Plus who cares about just the hourly rate lets look at the whole enchilada. Now don't get me wrong hourly rate is a portion of your compensation but its just a portion. I'm sure the company would be glad to pay us $15 more an hour than any other 757 rate if we are willing to give up the pension. Lets dig deeper. Look at the pattern as future contracts were negotiated off of our late 2014 ratified rates.
10 year Capt pay rate
AA- $287
UA- $279
FDX- $265
Now ask how long and at what longevity does one need to be at to hold those rates even pre covid-19 at UA, DL, and AA. As for UPS they went to a "it all pays the same model". That has its pros and cons also but is a realistic argument to say it may be the best with an operation like theirs which has a much more equally weighted wide body to narrow body count as compared to us at FedEx.
10 year Capt pay rate
AA- $287
UA- $279
FDX- $265
Now ask how long and at what longevity does one need to be at to hold those rates even pre covid-19 at UA, DL, and AA. As for UPS they went to a "it all pays the same model". That has its pros and cons also but is a realistic argument to say it may be the best with an operation like theirs which has a much more equally weighted wide body to narrow body count as compared to us at FedEx.
You don't know what you're talking about and you're trying to justify pay wages below industry standard! An operation that is almost exactly like FedEx's. How is it any different? It isn't.
New flash, FDX has a 30% ratio of NB to total jets and UPS has a 27% ratio. FDX has more NBs by only a 3% difference!
Originally Posted by opt0712
Exactly. There are many a local junior 75 CA sitting RA for $250+ an hour. What Major provides that opportunity under 3.5 years?
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Ok. Let me make sure I understand you both. Are you actually saying that you're okay with pay rates for the same equipment that are well below the top industry rates because we have more pilots being paid at those rates? Or because a junior pilot can hold one of the seats paying those rates?
FACT: FedEx's 757 pays below industry standard pay rates and total compensation as compared to our nearest competitor UPS and to DAL UAL AA when profit sharing and cash over the top is included.
05-23-2020, 04:00 AM
#76
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Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,090
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
FACT: FedEx's 757 pays below industry standard pay rates and total compensation as compared to our nearest competitor UPS and to DAL UAL AA when profit sharing and cash over the top is included.
/s
05-23-2020, 05:55 AM
#77
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
If you had the highest narrowbody pay at the leading edge of pattern bargaining, and everybody else patterned off your contract to exceed your rate (which I believe is what happened with DAL1, SWA1, UPS, DAL2, SWA2, UAL “me too”, and AA 8% “industry standard” raise) is lagging them at the end of that bargaining cycle really something worth being ashamed of?
Last edited by Noworkallplay; 05-23-2020 at 06:18 AM.
05-23-2020, 06:00 AM
#78
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Originally Posted by Adlerdriver
Ok. Let me make sure I understand you both. Are you actually saying that you're okay with pay rates for the same equipment that are well below the top industry rates because we have more pilots being paid at those rates? Or because a junior pilot can hold one of the seats paying those rates?
We will be top of the stack on pay rates and entire compensation again this next contract in 2021. Honestly if you look at total compensation we are in line with everyone on 757 pay currently except maybe UPS since they have 1 pay rate.
Last edited by Noworkallplay; 05-23-2020 at 06:20 AM.
05-23-2020, 06:27 AM
#79
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
FACT: FedEx's 757 pays below industry standard pay rates and total compensation as compared to our nearest competitor UPS and to DAL UAL AA when profit sharing and cash over the top is included.[/QUOTE]
You are correct our 757 pay rate is lagging but was top of the heap in 2015. Thats pattern bargaining young fella. If you take total compensation retirement, vacation, etc that gap disappears except compared to UPS since they have 1 pay rate. I honestly hope we get one pay rate next contract. You completely missed the point toolbox. Take a look at everyone’s contract when we TA’d our 2015 CBA then get back to me.
You are correct our 757 pay rate is lagging but was top of the heap in 2015. Thats pattern bargaining young fella. If you take total compensation retirement, vacation, etc that gap disappears except compared to UPS since they have 1 pay rate. I honestly hope we get one pay rate next contract. You completely missed the point toolbox. Take a look at everyone’s contract when we TA’d our 2015 CBA then get back to me.
05-23-2020, 06:28 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
Even worse, a widebody FO is going to make more than a NB Captain -- especially 777FO and as of late a MD11FO.
"An operations like theirs [UPS]" ..."much more equally weighted weight body to narrow body"
You don't know what you're talking about and you're trying to justify pay wages below industry standard! An operation that is almost exactly like FedEx's. How is it any different? It isn't.
New flash, FDX has a 30% ratio of NB to total jets and UPS has a 27% ratio. FDX has more NBs by only a 3% difference!
Delta and other airlines had Captains on MD88/90s ($248/hour) with less than two years on property! Yes, pre-COVID19 but that doesn't matter. Nobody compares compensation based on what years of longevity it takes by individual company! I don't know what the most junior 757 CAs were at the legacies but they weren't far off from the 2-year MD88/90 CAs.
Bingo! I couldn't have said it better Adlerdriver. Noworkallplay, are you management? Seriously, you continue to talk down this profession and our worth.
FACT: FedEx's 757 pays below industry standard pay rates and total compensation as compared to our nearest competitor UPS and to DAL UAL AA when profit sharing and cash over the top is included.
"An operations like theirs [UPS]" ..."much more equally weighted weight body to narrow body"
You don't know what you're talking about and you're trying to justify pay wages below industry standard! An operation that is almost exactly like FedEx's. How is it any different? It isn't.
New flash, FDX has a 30% ratio of NB to total jets and UPS has a 27% ratio. FDX has more NBs by only a 3% difference!
Delta and other airlines had Captains on MD88/90s ($248/hour) with less than two years on property! Yes, pre-COVID19 but that doesn't matter. Nobody compares compensation based on what years of longevity it takes by individual company! I don't know what the most junior 757 CAs were at the legacies but they weren't far off from the 2-year MD88/90 CAs.
Bingo! I couldn't have said it better Adlerdriver. Noworkallplay, are you management? Seriously, you continue to talk down this profession and our worth.
FACT: FedEx's 757 pays below industry standard pay rates and total compensation as compared to our nearest competitor UPS and to DAL UAL AA when profit sharing and cash over the top is included.
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