Originally Posted by dynap09

While cashing your bigger checks... and keeping the ATI guys at poverty wages.

seriously, the ATI guys were way BELOW ABX. If you really wanted to make a move - how about ABX pilots put all pay over the base ATI scale at the time into a pot, and share among both pilot groups - that would have immediately driven unity way up. Then sure, ATI -> getting paid what ABX was, might have said let's hang tight.

The other issue - ABX pilots and ATI pilots do have different attitudes.

ABX pilots would burn down ABX if they could it seems half the time, they'll keep some thing inefficient just to screw company, and they HATE at least amazon with a total passion. They've done websites claiming to be "prime air" pilots and complaining, they've run ads I think as prime air pilots, they seem to go into news stories as prime air pilots talking about how horrible Amazon etc are. They've gone on no notice strikes with customer freight on board. We get it - ABX pilots can barely keep the planes flying (despite having FO's with 10+ years experience!). I'm sure this approach makes customers really want to work with ABX.

Originally Posted by Elevation

None of it really mattered. None of it was true..

Originally Posted by CardboardCutout

Oh come on. Be serious. FLX was obviously and objectively better than the rest of you hacks. We did what you did, but with one engine! And we never crashed! Well, ok, we rarely crashed! Ok, fine, we didn't crash TOO MUCH.

But yeah, good post, otherwise.

Originally Posted by nitefr8dog

AAWH, ABX, ATI, K4, Omni......etc, etc.

Originally Posted by abxflyr

One of the major things you forget is where ATI and ABX have been and come from. ABX...their pilots "invested" in their company (ATSG) at a time when the airline was on the brink and needed pilot concessions to remain in biz. The pilots ponied up on that request, took concessions, and later were seeking to coop the rewards/interest/return on their investment; just as anyone would. Banks don't loan cash for free, you don't put money into your 401K only to have your neighbor or your wife's next husband enjoy it. After ATSG became profitable and viable the ABX pilots wanted (and still do) their return on investment. ATSG elected to snub the employees and purchase other assets.

In comes ATI (CCI, and now Omni), airline. Originally maybe a fair investment for ATSG until they lost their ride (BAX Global). No cap-x investment in an aging fleet, basically forced to merge certificates (ATI/CCI) to remain viable. Fast forward and they are given a new-life, aircraft re-fleeting, and AMZ. ATSG has further chosen to invest in ATI in many areas, better mx, equipment wherever need, more cap-x, and for a long time at lower labor cost. In short, had ATSG not bought these carriers....or made large investments in them, their death was all but certain (minus combi work). Their investment in ABX.....nil.

If you consider this payback, regardless of ABX labor issues (their strike and concerns were long after the investment in other alirines) for what ABX pilots, mechanics, schedulers, sim-techs, avionics, office staff, etc. etc. placed in the hands of ATSG for safe keeping. Well....karma is a weird thing. It may take decades, but without a philosophical change in labor and business management, ATSG will eventually do the same to others again.

Originally Posted by CA Deplorable

Your post is spot on. I can remember back in the day when ATI was planting DC-8s around the country like lawn darts and they certainly would have went the way of Fine, Arrow, and the likes. Capital investment is what saved them and gave them new life, many of the pilots there now don't know the history. Lastly, this industry is very cyclic and the darling of the dance today could be the red headed step child tomorrow, it all depends on the goals of corporate management and if Team A is willing to cut Team B's throat or not. As long as there is a holding company, leasing company and multiple certificates the toys can be moved around the table any way they so desire. So don't get too invested in the hype because things change...sometimes dramatically!

Originally Posted by ke4lir

There where no Martini's harmed in the making of this?

Originally Posted by midnightshuttle

Sounds like you have a case of ABX privilege. I wasn’t here at the time but it looks to me as if ATI was totting the load by doing war zone flying without war zone pay. ABX pulling that strike on cyber Monday sure didn’t help things.

Don’t be thinking we are so underpaid, we got a contract and are already working on the next. I have a hunch this one will aim higher than anything yet. This is a new airline now with a new diverse crew force.

If it was so bad AbX’r wouldn’t be coming over here for jobs. Like our CP and some instructors.