rickair7777

Rotflmao.....

mart83648

My understanding is that UPS was forced to single-carrier, because Fedex called anti-competitive practice--which is illegal. DHL is allowed to do it because they're European based.

mart83648

What is this? Do you have anything more to add to the convo?

Hedley

FedEx and UPS have unions that would prevent those things. Look at the auto industry. GM owns many plants. Some use workers in Michigan, some in Texas, and some in Mexico. Owning/controlling an asset doesn’t restrict you from farming out the use of those assets. Legacy passenger airlines own many of the regional jets out there, they maintain operational control over their use, yet they farm other companies out to fly them.

Hedley

The guy who crashed Atlas 3591 was an idiot who covered his tracks and washed out of multiple regional programs. He was an accident waiting to happen in either a RJ, or a 747. He should have never been pushed through training, but every airline has weak pilots who get pushed through and consistently just make the grade. I came up through the ACMI side of the business and I’d put those guys up against a legacy crew any day.

Birdsmash

Note I said “effective training AND checking” Captain Obvious.

Lucifer

almost seems as if the RLA, as written long ago, no longer applies to the current manner the industry operates under?

certainly not the only old writing that barely addresses modern life....

senecacaptain

FedEx uses numerous contract carriers. All the FedEx ATR's and Caravans are contract carrier operated.

Before UPS developed its own in-house airline, it was all contract or ACMI style carriers. I believe all of them were folded into the original UPS Airlines.

Amazon doing what they do is not some cosmic new business model. it is what it is. today is 2020 not 1962

Elevation

This is true.

whalesurfer

UPS was never forced to a single-carrier certificate. Ever. Not by FedEx and not by the FAA.

It’s a myth perpetuated by management. UPS mgmt is addicted to control - period! Atlanta has perfected the science of micro-management which has been brown’s modus operandi since 1907.

In the late 80’ (before ‘88 though) there were several maintenance-related meetings which were attended by Mx supervisors for a couple of ups contractor airlines and FAA inspectors in charge of those airlines. Ups loves to micro-manage however, the brown supervisors were not invited to those meetings; in fact, at one meeting the faa specifically told ups mgmt reps that the only people represented at the meeting would be MX inspectors for that specific airline and the FAA, no one else.

This was shocking to Atlanta because after all they’re paying for those contractor flights and besides, they had so many “great” ideas. For example, they were hoping to use DC-8s of one airline and let crews of another airline fly them once their jet broke down or the crew timed out, etc., etc.. after all, a DC-8 is a DC-8, right? This lack of control is what drove ups to start their own airline.

Was told this story by one of our current POIs who in turn heard it from one of the original brown faa inspectors. He said the story about FAA somehow forcing ups to start their own airline is a myth and an illogical myth at that. (until today I actually never heard about FedEx somehow forcing ups to do it?)
He said UPS operating 5 separate airlines was every faa inspector’s wet-dream - it generated numerous job opportunities for them as each one of those contractor-airlines had their own operating ticket. FAA L O V E D ups’ previous, contractor-driven airline structure.

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