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Old 11-20-2020 | 07:54 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ChopNDrop
... That being said, I believe that the DHL model will be used as long as possible until it ultimately is more profitable to bring it all in house...
Doubt it, Bezos will want to stick to the DHL model for as long as possible, possible permanently, to avoid the possibility of future Amazon pilots unionizing.
His modus operandi is to whipsaw pilot groups against each other (saves him tons of $$$) and he knows there’s a risk Amazon pilots would unionize just the way ups pilots did.
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Old 11-20-2020 | 08:14 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by JetRage
I have been trying to raise this issue with my union now for some time. I don't know why but it's falling on deaf ears. Someone who knows please explain how it went down at UPS and what is the legal process to force Amazon to stop the shell game.
why do you think your union has the right to tell a company that your union does not have a contract with how to do business? Just like you as a consumer have the right to choose fedex, ups, usps, DHL, to send your packages, so does Amazon. They just send more of them. Your union should be more concerned with having a parent company with three airlines.

Also , UPS and FedEx both hire ACMI carriers to fly their freight during peak times.
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Old 11-20-2020 | 08:20 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by kodiakallstar
If Amazon wants to directly compete with fed ex and ups in the express shipping arena they’d have to go in house. Dhl proved that already when they got dominated in n America. For what amazon is doing now I don’t think that it matters. Does anyone really care what time their Amazon stuff arrives so long as it gets there.

If you are in the business of selling stuff and just want to move it cheaper I think the subcontractor is the way to go. If you are selling time like ups and fed ex you have to go in house. However much Amazon medals in the operations of these subcontractors at the end of the day they don’t have control or a lot of power to fix the problems. Look at what was going on with atlas not being able to staff and operate those airplanes. Eventually they got someone else to move the jets in ati and sun country but they probably had to listen to a parade of excuses and months went by before they got to that conclusion. I don’t think fed ex and ups in that business really have the kind of time to be jerked around like that where Amazon does if it save them money.
All true but you may be missing something....

Amazon's time goal is actually shorter than overnight, so they pre-position stuff in local warehouses to accommodate more-immediate local delivery (eventually shooting for hours or minutes with small drones). So they can probably get away with most goods being delivered to the warehouse within days, not hours, of the need being identified. They use software to determine which goods need to be where, and when. From what I can see, the software works pretty well... no joke, their data mining allows them to know that you're going to need something before YOU know (statistically speaking). For the relatively small number of items which are truly overnight from somewhere not local, there's always FDX/UPS... as opposed to trying to duplicate nation-wide overnight express functionality for a small % of their sales.

Economy of scale helps them big-time... they do so much volume that what you might think is a one-off or once-in-a-lifetime purchase, is probably actually going out to several other local customers every day, so they can justify stocking a few in the local warehouse.

Also vertical integration would eventually HAVE to run afoul of the trust-busters... big tech has gotten away with a lot because their vision has outpaced what the regulatory/legal system was designed to handle, but it's bound to catch up eventually.

Bezos has single-handedly revolutionized retail, and he's not done yet, so keep your thinking flexible.
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Old 11-20-2020 | 08:37 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by gollum
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Also, UPS and FedEx both hire ACMI carriers to fly their freight during peak times.
True, but only because their respective union contracts allow it.
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Old 11-20-2020 | 08:53 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by 6Badger9
I’ve seen a lot of FedEx painted birds in Europe, that are operated by other carriers also
You've seen a handful of 737s in Europe painted in FedEx livery operated by only one carrier.

Edit: Unless you're talking about the feeders. There are also a handful of feeder aircraft being operated by contractors in Europe. Same model in the States.
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Old 11-20-2020 | 11:20 AM
  #46  
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evil Bezos
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Old 11-20-2020 | 12:51 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by whalesurfer
True, but only because their respective union contracts allow it.
Hard to charge for something you can't deliver.....end up flying alot of free freight that way. It goes something like this., pilots say "we want the contract to say only XXX pilots fly ALL the freight"
company says "ok we hire more pilots and buy more airplanes we only use during peak and pay you half year round "...pilots say ok you can use outside crews/aircraft during peak..give us the money"
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Old 11-20-2020 | 04:20 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by whalesurfer
True, but only because their respective union contracts allow it.
agreed, but to the point that they are single-Carrier operations, they are not.

also, those contracts are an agreement between fedex/ups and their company employed pilots. Amazon has no such company employed pilots and therefore no agreement with any pilots union.
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Old 11-20-2020 | 06:57 PM
  #49  
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what he said. Amazon employs no pilots. If a subcontractor wants to roger up and do a good job and provide great service to one of the worldss largest cap corporations on the face of the earth, and said corporation continues to throw work at the subcontractor, well god bless America.

no, Besos does not lie awake thinking about how to "screw pilots." He is too busy conquering the world.

Anti-Trust: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/comp...antitrust-laws

Free and open markets are the foundation of a vibrant economy. Aggressive competition among sellers in an open marketplace gives consumers — both individuals and businesses — the benefits of lower prices, higher quality products and services, more choices, and greater innovation. The FTC's competition mission is to enforce the rules of the competitive marketplace — the antitrust laws. These laws promote vigorous competition and protect consumers from anticompetitive mergers and business practices. The FTC's Bureau of Competition, working in tandem with the Bureau of Economics, enforces the antitrust laws for the benefit of consumers.
Amazon is the textbook definition of an open marketplace. Also, if you don't want to log in, and hit buy, you don't have to. You can drive in your car, and drive down the road like a free citizen, and go to Wal-Mart. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to buy at Amazon. But, see, nobody is. Any just about anything ON Amazon, is indeed sold SOMEWHERE, you just need to hunt it down, via legwork and flipping the yellow pages. You do not HAVE to use Amazon.

But, you probably are anyway. You can buy anything, ship it to your front door, in 2 days.

But in 2020, yesterday's "great business idea" is now an evil monoploy.

AOC and Bernie would be proud of such thinking. How dare we have innovative thinking in this country.

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Old 11-21-2020 | 06:33 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
There is no legal process.

It would only be possible for the pilots who are ACTUALLY employed by the Prime Air air operations certificate holder to negotiate for scope, and force the elimination or acquisition/merger of all outsourced flying. See the problem? Bezos is way out ahead of you.

Welcome to the brave new world. If you don't like being a whipsawed, outsourced, arms-length temp flying uber driver you should try to get hired by an operator which was around back when there was such a thing as employees, and they could unionize.
+1 I would add that one should strive to get hired by an operator that flies payload under it's own branded name.
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