bajthejino

Is that part of the reason the ABX group has been so anti-home basing?

abxflyr

Why does home basing get continually redressed? For those in the cheap seats....Like any union, pilots were surveyed from time to time throughout negotiations. Items such as home-basing were addressed and the group (meaning the majority...) communicated their desire to remain a domiciled airline. Our negotiator's we able to levy the cost of home-basing into other areas of the CBA, more specifically retirement. Did they achieve enough? Of course not, but it is an improvement. When the next follow on CBA is up for discussion I feel very confident the same question will be asked. Answers will based on the temperature and makeup of the pilot group at that time. Case closed.

Reactivity

Not sure how that follows from what I said.

For historical reasons, much of the pilot group lived within driving distance of CVG. They had no interest in home basing.

Many of those hired since the olden days have moved within driving distance of CVG. They have no interest in home basing.

Many live near airports used by DHL or Amazon and have very easy commutes to CVG. They have minimal interest in home basing.

The union has asked about home basing. There wasn't that much interest. The membership was more interested in extracting the value of home basing in other ways. That is seen in the current CBA when compared to ATI, which was the standard against which our CBA was negotiated. ABX gets more in retirement and works fewer days per year.

bajthejino

You said the union has a history of "advocating for its members", so I asked a question that seems to really get under the skin of ABX'ers. Its like they don't want to remain competitive with other freight outfits that want to attract and retain talent. Its kina funny to me, so I guess I'm being a jerk by doing it. It's like another guy that was bragging about how hard it was to get through their training years ago, bragging about hiring people that couldn't make it through, and then relishing the fact they were fired, as if it was some high mark of the industry. But now, according to this person, any redtodd can get hired and they pass them through, as if they aren't being held to FAA standards.
"extracting the value of home basing in other ways"-which is to say you got what exactly? The price of those tickets directly deposited into your retirement or 75% of said money added onto your checks each pay period-or got nothing and then talked excrement for years about outfits that were home based?
Back in my day we had to climb to descend and do the ILS backwards with the gear up, nowadays these magenta kids are doing it normal with the gear down...huarrrumph.....

point432

I think as the membership changes there could be more of a push towards homebasing. But up till recently the old guard was the majority…now they are the minority.

And again the mentality has changed. With more people upgrading and upgrades now down to 3.5 years, those becoming captains and check airmen understand what its like to not be so petty in regards to training. Just about everyone hired from 2016 on wants everyone that walks through the door to just be successful. We understand that new hires that like to work here will stay, and that will make our solidarity stronger. Not just from a Union stand point, but as a unit making our customers happy.

I don’t want to see training ever be the way it used to be. “Come to ABX! Training so horrible you’ll wish you worked in the Congo!”


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nitefr8dog

UPS and FedEx along with all the passenger carriers seem to get along without homebasing just fine. You get a ticket if your trip starts or ends anyplace other then your domicile. Jumpseats on the company are verified the day prior to travel and if you do not make it in you are not penalized. So in the end those who jumpseat to work do it like 80% of the airline crews that chose to not live in domicile. Really not that big of a deal or hard to understand. As far as training I do not think stating the facts was bragging vs just being glad the aholes that used to be in Flt Standards are long gone.

Reactivity

The majority was not interested in home basing, so the union didn't pursue it. And advocating for the membership goes beyond contract negotiations.

I don't know why home basing is somehow considered the gold standard in ACMI. If you live near your domicile, home basing has no value. If you live in a DHL or Amazon city where you don't have to shlep your bags through airports and sit in row 34 with the hoi polloi on a two-leg commercial into position, but instead make one call and walk onto an airplane that might even be operated by your own company for the trip to CVG, home basing has minimal value.

Yeah, pretty much. You'll fit in great at ATI.

I jest (mostly).

Actually, on those occasions when I have commuted on ATI, I've found ATI pilots to be OK, the one exception being the guy who has a habit of refusing the jumpseat to ABX pilots because he can't get over stupid things that were done and said by an ABX pilot who retired years ago. There were a few who acted like they would rather I wasn't there, but it has been very few.

You haven't heard the stories about the Bad Old Days of what they called "The Aryan Brotherhood", where you would be failed for any minor thing, and not surviving the probationary year was a common occurrence. Passing training and getting to the second year was a real accomplishment.

More recently, since the training department became more reasonable and hiring pilots with significant experience got more difficult, we were just happy that the training department and the check airmen on the line tried to maintain some kind of standards even as there was pressure to fill seats. There are stories. I saw at least one of them first-hand.

Should they all have been passed anyway? Many of them were hired by other ACMI carriers after leaving ABX. Make of that what you will. And everybody has seen what happens when you disregard the warning signs and just shuffle people through to fill a seat. So if the ABX training department is filtering out those who should find a different way to make a living, I'm all for it.

I don't think they're just passing everyone through now, but there are a lot more opportunities being given than there used to be. I'm seeing a lot of extra sim sessions in initial training. IOE used to be 25 hours. It has been expanded to 50. Some have gone well beyond that.

For retirement, ABX gets 5% direct plus a 100% match up to 3.5%. ATI gets 3.5% plus a 50% match up to 5%. So ABX gets 8.5% from the company for a 3.5% contribution, while ATI gets 6% for a 5% contribution.

We dropped 7 work days per year in our new contract, from 204 down to 197. And that is 11 fewer days per year than home-based ATI. Those days have a value, and we're doing that with the same minimum pay guarantee as ATI on an annual basis - 780 hours per year (they do 60 x 13, while we do 65 x 12) - at the same pay rate.

Blocks that begin or end with a commercial deadhead can now be done from or to the crewmember's home instead of CVG at the crewmember's request. That used to be possible, but it was at the discretion of the travel coordinator, and the cost of the ticket had to be equal to or less than what it cost for the ticket from or to CVG.

I make comparisons to ATI for a reason, namely that their 2018 CBA formed the cost structure into which we were told our CBA must fit. We are pay matched with ATI (and you can bet that wasn't an accident) so direct comparisons are easily made.

bajthejino

UPS/FedEx, people want to work their for the rest of their lives, they have leading pay, retirements, they are final destination airlines. In this forum, we are not talking about a final destination airline.
But hey, I get it. I've done my fair share of asking for rides, which is why I went back to 135/DOD work for the last 11+ years. I can find nothing worse in life than checking loads, showing up at 6am to start schlepping for a ride knowing that on the list of priority, step-great grandchildren from some old crusty mainline guys 4th marriage, ride before I do on a flight that is sold at 110%. So, if I do come back to 121, it'll nice to know what time I have to be at the airport, to hop on like any other Dick or Jane. That carries a lot of water for me.

bajthejino

Great info, thanks.

nitefr8dog

Then just ride on the system (DHL or Amazon) on any of the carriers. There are like 60-70 flights a day to CVG. At ABX you cannot get a missed trip based on the commute language in the contract. I have commuted for 28+ years on our system only, never offline. It's just not that complicated. Also any flight that starts or end out of domicile you get a ticket. Funny thing we carry quite a few jumpseats who are home based but it's easier to just get on one of the system airplanes and go home instead of waiting until the next day.