Gooch

Street captains at ABX now? 🙄 🤦‍♂️

Reactivity

No.

And then a bunch of filler, because people write forum software with stupid requirements thinking they're really clever and they'll force people to give more than a one-word response.

Reactivity

That's only true if you have a very limited view.

Since nobody seems to want to actually figure this out but would rather instead complain about the supposedly low pay, I've done the work for you and compiled this handy chart. It's the reason why I continue to tell people to think long-term, look past the first year, look past the number behind the dollar sign, and don't assume your career will follow the trajectory you expect it to.

For simplicity, this chart uses 2023(ish) pay rates for each company because they all increase at approximately the same rate as ABX (if not less). It assumes upgrade at 2 years, which is currently a realistic assumption at each company shown. It assumes minimum guarantee - the highest minimum if there is a difference between reserve and line holders. It also includes the various bonuses currently being paid for new hires, upgrades, and retention, as well as company 401k contributions. I don't guarantee that this is dead nuts accurate down to the last dollar, but it's certainly in the neighborhood and good enough for basic comparisons.

Book1.jpg

So yes, you can do better financially at one of those regionals, at least for the first two years. Beyond that, they start to lose their advantage as the bonuses run out and the captain pay rates at the regionals are much lower. And if those temporary rates at the AA lines aren't extended, forget about it. Yes, I know you expect to be at Big Name Airline by that time. Some of you will make it. Some of you won't. When the recession hits for real, most of you are going to be stuck wherever you are for a while.

And then consider this: Those higher paying regionals are now going to be flooded with applications. They are going to be in the position of being able to be very picky. It is far from guaranteed that you will be able to get hired by one of them.

If it's really all about the Benjamins for you, you can take the extra two days per month (or more) that you're off compared to your contemporaries at the "highly paid" regionals and pick up some open time trips, maybe at 200%, and make up the difference.

It's what everybody who isn't Big Name Airline is doing right now. Nobody is going to a regional airline with the intention of staying there. The turnover will continue, but now it's costing those companies that much more to achieve the same result. ATSG and ABX are in the business of making money for shareholders, not supplying jobs for pilots. If they thought increasing pay rates would result in significant cost savings, they would do it. But they know that most new hires are at ABX to enhance their résumé on their way to somewhere else, and management is not interested in paying more for the privilege of being a stepping stone. When the turnover reaches their pain point, they will find a way to address it.

1. Learn something about the Railway Labor Act and how it affects the ability of any pilot union to strike.
2. Learn what the no strike clause actually means and why it's there.
3. Understand that a strike is not the solution to all of your problems. Ask anybody who was at ABX six years ago to explain why.

Load o' crap, and a terrible accusation to level against a union that does significant work on your behalf - never mind the improvements they negotiated into the current contract to help make your life better. The scheduling committee has had several wins recently when it comes to improving pairings and reducing fatigue scores. Scheduling managers have agreed to changes that resulted in more flying lines.

Schedulers are briefed by the union on the contract scheduling rules. Anything crew scheduling assigns to you is within the limits of the contract. If they try to assign something that isn't legal, it's by mistake or misunderstanding and you should refuse it, citing the pertinent regulation or article of the contract.

Don't treat crew scheduling as the enemy. They have a job to do, and the rules are the rules. Just as you use every rule in the contract to your advantage, so do they. We are the ones who agreed to the rules. Don't blame crew schedulers for playing by them.

There are a few schedulers who will do whatever they can to help you out, especially if they know you will return the favor from time to time. Even the ones people consider to be difficult can be persuaded if you do it right. You get what you give.

I don't know what you mean by that last part, but again, you're barking up the wrong tree complaining about this union, which is currently looking for ways to reduce the pain of training displacements.

Don't complain about displacements for training. It's just poor form. Nobody likes them, but they are an inevitable part of life on the line when we have new hires. Remember that when you were on IOE, somebody got displaced for you.

And read the contract so that you know why there are advantages to holding a line when you're displaced for training. Being displaced into flex days is still better than being on reserve.

Good advice. It's kind of odd that it comes at the end of such a rant.

CaptainJay

I am always amazed the number of people forget we have 2 more days off a month than most carriers have.

Great Advice. I was fortunate enough to have a steward show me how to turn displacements into opportunity early on, and the advice has paid off for me. Even people who are trying to reach 121.436 mins have more opportunity than reserves as a displaced line holder.

CaptainJay

Only you can determine what works for you. I can tell you the long term opportunity at ABX air is very good right now.
Obviously things can change in Aviation but Reactivity has posted a lot of good info for those willing to do their research.

HighWingingIt

Does the daytime flying typically go senior compared to the DHL flying at night on the FO side? How about the international stuff going to CGN/EMA?

Reactivity

I don't see much of a seniority divide on who gets what because the schedule optimizer tends to throw all of that stuff together. When the schedules were built by real people putting pairings on a line, they usually built lines that were all domestic DHL, all international, or all Amazon. The optimizer doesn't do that. Many of the lines on the current bid pack mix at least two of those things, if not all three. So even as a junior FO, you're not likely to get stuck doing one thing or another. You will probably do it all. And if you do prefer one thing over another, there are opportunities for line holders to make adjustments. In that, more seniority means more likelihood of getting more of what you like.

nitefr8dog

Read Kalitta or Atlas, ATI and Amerjet forums. You will see everyone uses the same "sodomizer" software for scheduling. Nobody at any of the other airlines go on and on about how great the schedules are. Also training displacement is pretty common these days.

vroll1800

Idk who Reactivity and Captain Jay are (legacy or 151er) but both posts were the best I've seen in a while. Kudos !

AerChungus

Finding myself in a bit of an odd situation. I currently have a postponed class date from a regional and would be commuting out of Northern New England. I have no ATP but did my written elsewhere. Not really expecting to hear anything, I threw my 1500 hour CFI app in to ABX. I instantly received a TBNT, but a recruiter later texted me and asked me to clarify that I had done the written. I just received an interview invitation for an upcoming class date and I'm confused, but obviously excited. Has ABX ever hired people who didn't have their full ATP? If I'm lucky enough to sneak through the cracks, shouldn't this be a no-brainer?
I don't have much of a plan since I wasn't expecting to get this far