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You are right, it is far from gospel. However, anyone who has been to CDG sees dozens of contract aircraft, including A-300s moving our freight every night. Been to CGN, UPS's Euro hub? It seems like every other widebody on their ramp is from some contract outfit. You say it's highly unlikely. Maybe, but if you are right, we gain nothing (they man it with whomever will bid it and new hires to flush it out), if you are wrong, we suffer many years and may never regain that flying. FedEx uses an Indian freight outfit (admitedly small) to carry our domsetic Indian cargo. In China, they just signed up for the same thing. Ship something to any other city in Australia or to New Zealand and it goes as Qantas belly freight from Sydney. Fred and the boys are not stupid, ruthless yes, but no way are they stupid. IMHO, Fred will not renegotiate this thing in any way shape or form, but....he will make it work. Naturally, that's my opinion, a scare tactic, pure speculation, gross stupidity, etc...................

 

Another low ball offer by a very profitable company. I can't blame the company for trying to get us to "help them" open these FDAs as quickly and cheaply as possible, that's their job.

If they could have done it without this LOA they would have done it by now. They need us working under the RLA and not the French labor laws, 6 weeks vacation and strinking just because....

I also don't believe the company will find Chinese pilots to support the operation in China since the Chinese are hiring expats to man their own airlines.

 

I think outsourcing isn't likely. FDX pilots will be based in the FDA's, regardless.

I also think that renegotiation isn't likely. The money is what it is.

So in my humble opinion:

1. Vote NO: STV's not a threat, cost the FDA pilots $2700 / month,

2. Vote YES: STV's are a threat, give the FDA pilots $2700 / month.

So the issue is this: are STV's such a danger that we should deprive over a hundred pilots $2700 a month?

For the record I will gladly bid one month every six in either HKG or CDG. I've got 4 kids so even coach tickets are going to make this a losing proposition for the company. Add 31 nights in a $200/night hotel and my per diem, and I just don't see this as that big a threat. I think heads would roll if flight ops spent that kind of money due to poor planning.

 

Unskilled, I think you have hit the nail on the head. The company has beeen working on a European FDA for how long???? They were planning this well before contract negotiations. Yet they did nothing in the current CBA. Now an LOA for, as Unskilled calls them, a few volunteers. So next contract negotiations the company sits back and says "what ya goin to give up for enhancements to FDA flying. It is only a few volunteers?' Then we don't get anything and within six months they come back and say "We are opening XYZ FDA and the current CBA applies (the LOA will be written as stone in the new CBA)." How do we get any improvement? We are right where we are now!

Another point about outsourcing - has anyone read the latest Airline Pilot. The EU and China are looking at starting a new program to get guys with basically no time into the right seat to learn how to fly big jets, basically a "Right Seat Only" license. The domestic majors are all starting to hire. So my question is, where are all these other pilots to fly at our FDA's going to come from?

 

I know the A-300 goes to Dublin because we're not allowed to fly to Ireland from CDG, unless that plane breaks. I fortunately got to do that once.

 

I went ot the LOA meeting on thursday noon and read BC's update then voted yes

 

Huck, I think it is $2700 a month

The LOA says "The pilot shall be entitled to Company paid lodging in accommodations of quality similar to that of the local contract hotels". That raises a big question mark!!

Also, the LOA does not address transportation to and from said "layover like" hotel while on STV. So all that extra per diem was just spent on transportation! Is it worth it now? And can I come visit all six of you in your closet of a hotel room? That would be worth the trip!!!!

 

DW fielded softballs for over an hour. DD tried to offer a suggestion that the LOA be split to cover each specific domicile and the differing issues that relate to each. He also insightfully suggested that we try a SIBA operation for some period until we and the company work the bugs out. Good ideas DD. If we were only polled and had an open dialog with the NC over the past 6 months, that idea might have had a chance to get vetted.

After most pilots left to go to work, DW made a few questionable comments on SFS pilots and their block rep.

According to DW, we either approve this LOA or its Thermo Nuclear War. Depending on which side of his mouth he is using, the threat is new hires will be flying wide body left seats or the company will farm out all this lucrative flying. Is there no reasonable middle ground? Can we not approach the company, now that we have gotten some feedback from the membership that there are many short-comings in this document that need to be revisited?

DW and his staff are convinced we have no leverage here. The company pays a lot of money each year for Gemini to fly our freight. If it was cheap and reliable, they would keep doing it. We do have leverage. We do the best job at the cheapest rate day in and night out. We have scope protection in the FDA, read 24 C.5.e. The company wants us to sign that waiver to foreign work rules, because they don't want us or any other pilot group moving their freight under foreign laws. FDX wants us to do the work because they know what quality product we bring to the table. If they put newhires or foreign crews into China and they mess it us, then FDX (and us) could loose some valuable market positions.

Let's be reasonable and fix these flaws now.

I am not voting NO because this might be a bad deal for me, I have already voted NO because this is a bad deal for all of us.

 

Hey, Popeye. Go ahead and vote no because its a bad deal for you. Don't assume that its a bad deal for everyone.

 

Yes we use contract carriers in Canada, China, the UK and other countries. It isn't because FedEx doesn't want to fly the freight. It's because the host country won't allow it..........It's against their laws for us to fly point-to-point within their borders.