I think it wil be ugly for junior FOs too....

 

A lot of people are confused on this issue...

The reality is that you CAN excess ANYWHERE your seniority will hold. Your assignment to an FDA can not RESULT in an EXCESS at the FDA.

The company can elect to absorb extra folks in an FDA by increasing the size of the domicile, or in the current situation, by cancelling the previously awarded, but not yet activated or trained pilots in HKG, starting from the bottom up until manning is good. Not a pleasant prospect, but one I am sure the company bean counters are examining in detail...

 

So the company can just ignore 24.C.6.b?

 

Is this as acurate as the other predictions you have made in the past?

ugly could be a number of things.. I'm convinced it's ugly right now... so you're saying it's going to be uglier? ... hmmmm not good Mav....

 

The Company can't ignore it, but the Company has the power to decide what determines and "excess at an FDA". They could decide to eat the extra manning as this base will see future vacancies anyway or they could decide not to and pay passover to anyone who bids it on an excess award.

This CBA provision is strictly to protect the Company from the cost involved in the event of a significant seat excess bid (kind of like 08-02) from having to bump and flush pilots already in the FDA. In the case of this bid we have only a few pilots actually activated in HKG, and as Subicpilot stated the Company has many options to deal with a large number of bidders trying to get passover or that really do want to excess into HKG.

Bidding for passover is like bidding an airplane because of where it has layovers, and is not very smart for the most part. Always ask yourself, Am I willing to go fly what I have bid ? The answer better be yes, it always has been in my case. Do you really want the "out" to be not signing the LOA ? if that is your plan, then at least you have a plan...

 

Even worse then for junior 727 CA's. Does the Company really want to train a bunch of junior WB Captains back on the 727 ?

Can you share any more info ? You seem to have the pulse of people in the know !

 

We might be discussing two different scenarios?

My original response was to 'works nights'. I interpreted this post as, someone thinking that the bottom of the seniority list would be excessed to HKG. I replied by stating the company cannot excess into a FDA per 24.C.6.b.

 

Not sure how that section applies. It talks about an assignment made due to insufficient choices. Obviously, you can't involuntarily be sent to an FDA. Possibly, you were thinking of 6.c. or 6.d., which address assignment to an FDA creating an excess there, or being denied an FDA assignment.

If a pilot bids HKG on their bid, either to be excessed, or to relieve the excess, they can go there as long as it does not create an excess in the FDA. All the company has to do to not create an excess is to expand the staffing at that base to accomodate the new crewmembers.

Similarly, if someone who had their CDG award cancelled and elects to excercise their bid from one of the previous awards to go to HKG, they would be in the same situation. If they could have held HKG and choose to do so now, and the company wants to accomodate them by increasing staffing, they go to HKG. If not, then they get the passover pay mentioned in 24.C.6.d. If they want to take a stateside position, they can do the same, although stateside, if it's a seat on the Boeing, the company can increase the excess to keep the Boeing crew force shrinking as mentioned in 24.C.6.c.

 

From Chapter 24:

# Excess Crew Positions

1. Pilots shall be excessed from crew positions in seniority order from among those pilots who bid to relieve that excess. If an insufficient number of pilots bid to relieve a crew position posted as excess, pilots shall be excessed from that crew position in reverse seniority order. Except as provided in Section 24.C.6.b., a pilot who has been excessed, or who has bid to relieve an excess, shall be awarded another permanent crew position in accordance with his seniority and standing bid; provided, however, no pilot may be awarded or assigned a crew position at an FDA base that would cause an excess at that base.

2. If an excessed pilot cannot be awarded a crew position due to insufficient preferences on his standing bid, the Company shall assign him to a permanent crew position with a base in the United States with the highest pay rate to which he is entitled by his seniority.

3. If an excessed pilot is awarded or assigned a crew position that is also in excess, the number of pilots to be excessed from that crew position may be increased accordingly; provided, however, no pilot may be awarded or assigned a crew position at an FDA base that would cause an excess at that base.

4. If an excessed pilot is denied an award to an FDA crew position, pursuant to Section 24.C.6.a. or C.6.c., (above), and he has insufficient seniority to be awarded or assigned another crew position with the same or higher rate of pay, he shall be entitled to passover pay.




So if you are being excessed, or bid to relieve the excess, and you bid H30C and are not awarded it due to it causing an excess, you get your next bid preference that isn't an FDA, and you get passover (when somebody junior to you activates in the FDA).

If everybody in all of the seats getting excessed would bid H30C we could possibly get the attention of the company and maybe even our own MEC. Imagine if all 300 folks being excessed bid H30C, what would the company do?

FJ

 

Really? Then how did I end up on the HKG Captain award? You cannot excess to HKG if it creates an excess there. Again, the company determines that arbitrary number. Obviously, at this time, that number is above 62. Will it stay there? I doubt it.