FDX - Jul Disputed PR's
07-11-2009, 07:01 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Originally Posted by FreightDawgyDog
Actually the UN reference is spot on! What we need is Hans Blix to talk to these guys about DP flying.
(warning..strong language used in link)
YouTube - Team America: World Police- Kim Jong Il & Hans Blix (HD)
(warning..strong language used in link)
YouTube - Team America: World Police- Kim Jong Il & Hans Blix (HD)
07-11-2009, 09:28 PM
#103
On Reserve
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: MD11 F/O
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Unknown Rider
Here's an idea. Pick up the trips, then call in sick at the last minute forcing them to be assigned to a reserve. You can always make up the sick time later.
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
How about joining me in a new tactic I just started. If you are going to be in the AOC, look at the DP list and see if there is a pairing that shows close to your show time, look at the flight number and then go ask the guys (in a not so quiet voice) why they are flying a DP. Peer pressure and shame can even work in MEM. Emailing these morons is one thing (we should all do) but I got so PO'd I decided to take it to another level. With the 50 or so we have this month at least a couple guys should be able to talk to each DP flyer.
If we don't start taking the bull by the horns we are weaker than I ever imagined, absolutely impotent at controlling our destiny and will continue to see our schedules deteriorate in quality.
07-12-2009, 06:23 AM
#105
Part Time Employee
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
Posts: 1,918
[QUOTE=HornetFDX;643512]Here's another idea...DON'T PICK UP THE TRIPS. Duh.
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent!
It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICN
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent!
It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICN
07-12-2009, 06:39 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
[QUOTE=MaxKts;643591]
That is certainly true. But, the rest of the story is that most DP's that are routinely not picked up DO get fixed long before they get to that point.
And these 8 in 24 trips would surely get fixed, if they had to burn 2 or 3 R-days per 1 day trip, on a reserve.
Originally Posted by HornetFDX
Here's another idea...DON'T PICK UP THE TRIPS. Duh.
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent! It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICN
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent!
It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICNThat is certainly true. But, the rest of the story is that most DP's that are routinely not picked up DO get fixed long before they get to that point.
And these 8 in 24 trips would surely get fixed, if they had to burn 2 or 3 R-days per 1 day trip, on a reserve.
07-12-2009, 08:40 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 777 F/O
Posts: 340
[quote=Busboy;643597]
That is certainly true. But, the rest of the story is that most DP's that are routinely not picked up DO get fixed long before they get to that point.
And these 8 in 24 trips would surely get fixed, if they had to burn 2 or 3 R-days per 1 day trip, on a reserve.
The problem with these 8n24 pairings is that they are just as safe as any other day layover we have in our system. They are disputed because we can't "turn into or out of" them or the 16ish rest is on our own time. Under that criteria, there could be a number of higher profile pairings that fall into that category as well. I enjoy 24HR+ SEA, OAK, SFO, SJC layovers just as much as anyone, but like the company we kind of want it both ways on this one.
I support the process, even though it does'nt appear to work, but safety and fatigue has to remain the driver or the broken system will REALLY have no chance to work. In the end it won't matter because as I understand it, under domestic flag these trips would be in violation per the FARs, not per the contract.
Originally Posted by MaxKts
That is certainly true. But, the rest of the story is that most DP's that are routinely not picked up DO get fixed long before they get to that point.
And these 8 in 24 trips would surely get fixed, if they had to burn 2 or 3 R-days per 1 day trip, on a reserve.
I support the process, even though it does'nt appear to work, but safety and fatigue has to remain the driver or the broken system will REALLY have no chance to work. In the end it won't matter because as I understand it, under domestic flag these trips would be in violation per the FARs, not per the contract.
07-12-2009, 09:02 AM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by onetime
[]
The problem with these 8n24 pairings is that they are just as safe as any other day layover we have in our system. They are disputed because we can't "turn into or out of" them or the 16ish rest is on our own time. Under that criteria, there could be a number of higher profile pairings that fall into that category as well. I enjoy 24HR+ SEA, OAK, SFO, SJC layovers just as much as anyone, but like the company we kind of want it both ways on this one.
The problem with these 8n24 pairings is that they are just as safe as any other day layover we have in our system. They are disputed because we can't "turn into or out of" them or the 16ish rest is on our own time. Under that criteria, there could be a number of higher profile pairings that fall into that category as well. I enjoy 24HR+ SEA, OAK, SFO, SJC layovers just as much as anyone, but like the company we kind of want it both ways on this one.
Last edited by pinseeker; 07-12-2009 at 11:23 AM.
07-12-2009, 09:50 AM
#109
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
[quote=MaxKts;643591]
The deal is....the pilots still have the power. If the trip turns out to be undo able from a safety or fatigue standpoint......you have your options.
Originally Posted by HornetFDX
Here's another idea...DON'T PICK UP THE TRIPS. Duh.
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent! It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICN
If the trip gets picked up, and then either dropped or called in sick the damage is still done. If the trip gets picked up regardless of what happens later it counts for the company, and after the 3 month window we are stuck with them permanently.
Even if they are not picked up (like was done in ANC) the process allows PC or whoever his replacement becomes the ability to say the dispute is invalid and make the trip permanent!
It started with ANC-NRT-NGO and now is ANC-NRT-KIX or ICN
07-12-2009, 11:45 AM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 777 F/O
Posts: 340
Originally Posted by pinseeker
If the higher profile flights you are talking about are the STN,KIX,FRA,CDG,CGN/MEM flights, you are mixing apples and oranges. Those flights consist of one leg that exceeds 8 hours of block. The west coast flights are two different duty periods which combine to go over 8 in 24. Unless you have figured out how to bend space, KIX/MEM is never going to be under 8 hours block. Again, the west coast flights are fixable, the others are not. It's sad to see a pilot side with the company on this one.
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