Flying Boxes

Wasn't this the mantra few years ago?

It gives the impression only senior pilots have "senority rights".

Flaps50

No you're right!

The company created this mess (excess) and now we giving up our contractual rights to fix it... Nuts!

I keep hearing that the union agreed to this and that and am wondering if anyone actually has the letters or message traffic that allows all of this to happen? Someone mentioned to me that they are using the FDA LOA that allowed for possibly training out of seniority to agree to this in the excess bid; IMO the FDA LOA has no bearing on this matter at all. I feel like the upper echelon on our seniority list is apathetic to the lowest 300-500 guys and since it doesn't affect the senior guys it must be OK. Of course if this was happening to the top 500 guys there would be chaos right now.

AFW_MD11

You'd be amazed at how many things our union has agreed to/negotiated with the company - the results of which are not published anywhere for the pilot group to read.

Seems like every time I call Contract Enforcement I learn of a new (to me) settlement agreement/arbitration ruling/back-alley-deal that has been struck - but isn't published anywhere.

Me: "Hey, DT.....the company just did XYZ to me, and I can't find that written anywhere in the contract.....can they DO that to me?"

DT: "oh....yeah....back in the FPA days....we had a guy grieve that and we settled with the company on how to handle it in the future"

Me: "interesting....where is that written down so I can peruse the information?"

DT: "unfortunately, it's not written anywhere......any more questions I can help you with?"

example - did you know that airport stby's are not assigned to Reserve pilots who request First Fly? unless they would have been tagged with it in leveling order (First Fly or not)? So.....First Fly only means FIRST for trips - not stby duty.

written anywhere? in the CBA that way? no. just have to call either CRS or ALPA to find out that little tidbit.

I'm sure there's plenty more examples - that's just one I found out about recently.

But, whaddaya want? REAL accountability or transparency from the organization that represents "our collective best interests"?

iarapilot

Actually, it does. The FDA LOA is what started all of this realignment bidding in the first place! With such a good deal for us pilots, they couldnt get the R seat filled in HKG. Hence the smoke and mirrors with the start of the excess bids.

Flaps50

I agree that the company knew HKG would be filled with everyone heading backwards, but that was not the root cause of the excess IMO just a nice benefit for the company. The current economic disaster and the uncertain future economy was the main reason for the excess bid and now they are realizing that it was to much and want their cake and want to eat it too (gorge on it with 4a2b). Show me where it is written that the union has a agreed to allow out of seniority training as it refers to the excess bid. The FDA LOA has nothing contractually to do with the excess bid and if it is being portrayed that way by the union then the union leadership is overstepping its authority. The contract that I have says excessed Pilots will be trained in reverse seniority order period; not according to what plane they are going to, not according to what seat, not according to what backdoor deal someone has made with someone else...

That sentence in the contract is so plainly clear how would we allow it to be convoluted to mean something else than what is so plainly written. We let the company add about a million things to the 4a2b language, but now this too.

Unknown Rider

It has nothing to do with the FDA LOA. I believe it was grievance settlement 09-08. Call or email the Grievance Committee chairman or talk to the lawyers at the union for specifics.

DaRaiders

You're being WAY too logical, dude!

iarapilot

I agree. And they are gorging on the cake. We can only hope for a heart attack!

iarapilot

PS-It was tongue in cheek sarcasm.

Flaps50

I'll have to look at that grievance. So basically the company does something wrong to create a grievance from us, then we give in and give them something in return for screwing us in the first place. Great system.