Originally Posted by iarapilot

Yep, they give us narrow body pay for the 75 because they are going to give us good rates on the 380. Then they give us an LOA that is not bad for us with respect to Paris. Oh, thats right, they canceled the 380 and Paris. Seems like a pattern of good negotiating on their side.

Originally Posted by Busboy

The LOA was "not bad for Paris"? Uhhh...They were talking France, not Texas, right?

Originally Posted by iarapilot

What I meant was as far as taxes for the pilots goes, the LOA tax equal deal was good. But for HKG it isnt to good.

Originally Posted by Gunter

This definitely is worth repeating.

The 757 pay raise was given up in exchange for A380 rates and other possible gains. Give backs.

The 'productivity' enhancement of 2 vs. 3 person crews is very big.

The purchase plan is developing quickly. Expect, eventually, a 150+ 757 fleet in a currently shrinking domestic market. With the optimized schedule this equals more than 200 727s back in the day. Why the big buy? Because it's cheaper to operate than both the 727 AND the A310. Cheaper than a partially full A300 too. The crews flying those get widebody pay. I wonder if that matters? Bringing 2 757s into a market instead of a Bus and a 727 makes sense.

The company counts on this improved efficiency (give back for nothing in return) going forward. Their only regret is not doing it sooner. My only question is how many Airbus will we lose to the 757 buy? You can count on the Airbus flying more in China, staying in Europe, but it will be reduced in North America.

Watch F.E. in the MEC video a couple of times. He says we need to be engaged and passionate about negotiating to make it work for us. You bet the company is passionate about it. We have shown our hands on the LOA. The low voter turnout showed that we, as a membership, just don't care about FDAs! Don't expect folks to care enough to fall on their sword for 757 pay raise either. I guess if it was an LOA on the 777 pay rate that would be a different story....Or would it?

We all need to be aware of, AND CARE ABOUT, all the give backs being asked of us. Schedule, accepted fares, intl per diem, FDA LOA, over 60 guys being 'excessed' to the front while we are overmanned and excessing backward, 3 to 2 man cockpits, 757/777 pay rates. Did I miss anything? I think flight ops is doing enough to save the company $ right now. No need to panic. It's actually time to stand up and cry foul over some of these. All should be considered when we are negotiating nowadays.

Originally Posted by av8rmike

The tax equal was good? Crap, you must have received the detailed package delineating exactly how the tax equalization worked. I didn't, so I'm jealous. Maybe you could post it here for us so we can all study it and see what a good deal it was. From my perspective, it's really hard to determine if something is a 'good deal' or not without specifics. But, then again, I'm funny that way...

Originally Posted by iarapilot

Hey guys, my only point was the tax equal was better for us in Paris than HKG, and worse for the Company in Paris vs HKG. I never meant to imply that tax equal was worth a sh!t for any of us overall. And no, I didnt get the detailed package. But, I was told by our reps that it was good!

Originally Posted by av8rmike

I figured as much. Just bustin' your chops. It might have been a little easier to believe the blather coming from the Union if they actually had some documentation to back up their claims. "Trust me, it's great" just isn't a way to do business...

Originally Posted by MD Abuser

Blah, blah, blah.

Originally Posted by AFW_MD11

It's called N E G O T I A T I N G...

...I often wonder why the concept of negotiating (give and take) seems to be lost to a lot of people who post on this forum??