JLs FO LETTER
10-11-2006, 05:37 PM
#21
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by 42GO
Just have to say to all you guys that think our F/O's and Captains always do perfect work....
I had an F/O recently pick up the phone and talk all the way thru engine start and then on his leg flying back, at 10,000 feet, pulled out and worked on a crossword puzzle all the way to level off while it was his leg....needless to say we had a conversation....
Guys, we are doing a LOT OF THINGS that are not condusive to safe flying.....
NUF SAID
I had an F/O recently pick up the phone and talk all the way thru engine start and then on his leg flying back, at 10,000 feet, pulled out and worked on a crossword puzzle all the way to level off while it was his leg....needless to say we had a conversation....
Guys, we are doing a LOT OF THINGS that are not condusive to safe flying.....
NUF SAID
10-11-2006, 05:45 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Airbusdriver
The Airbus 4-wheelers were Barr and Sanwick I think.
If that had been any one of us, we'd have been jerked out of the seat and sent to the sim for a PC. Double standard.
10-11-2006, 06:46 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by boxhauler
So airbus F/Os have a pretty good safety record. Md-11 F/Os not so good. In fact bad. (Mem Md-10 gear collapse, Mem tail strike, SFS tail strike) Whats the difference? Maybe professional RFOs who barely stay current. Maybe 14-15 day pairings with min flights/landings. Maybe guys who have been in their seats too long and lost motivation to stay sharp. Definitely a full disclosure of the enders report would help. Somethings wrong and has to change. JAck is saying look in the mirror and see if you're part of the problem. Just cuz you've been able to min run the program so far without a incident doesnt mean cant happen to you.
Who's problem is it?
We have had 7 accidents........we still have the same Director of Safety.
We still have the Same senior Flight MGT.
We still have the Same MGR of flt training.
Where is the problem?
10-11-2006, 06:51 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
He's 59 3/4. We just got done with negotiations. He's been CP the whole time I've been here (almost 5 years). He's got to be BEAT. Maybe he's just whipped down and tired.
I made a point to a friend that with 4800 pilots, 1% of the crew force screwing up once a year means 48 incidents a year. So...even doing a 99 % effective job once a week he's got a missed trip, lost passport, busted line check, etc etc. Year after year it adds up...and one day you boil over.
Perhaps the captain's who don't want RFO pairings aren't the only ones who should downbid. Maybe its time for a new CP with a bit less stress and some fresh blood.
And no--this ain't personal...but I SURE would hate to have that job 5 years...regardless of pay.
I made a point to a friend that with 4800 pilots, 1% of the crew force screwing up once a year means 48 incidents a year. So...even doing a 99 % effective job once a week he's got a missed trip, lost passport, busted line check, etc etc. Year after year it adds up...and one day you boil over.
Perhaps the captain's who don't want RFO pairings aren't the only ones who should downbid. Maybe its time for a new CP with a bit less stress and some fresh blood.
And no--this ain't personal...but I SURE would hate to have that job 5 years...regardless of pay.
10-11-2006, 06:56 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: MD-11
Posts: 281
RedEyE, Got to agree with you on this one. Every time I see EL I wonder how the hell he has kept his job?? The other thing is FDX prides themselves on the hiring process, maybe we need new people in the hiring department. JL go away already
10-11-2006, 07:11 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 92
I've known Jack for over 20 years. I'll always cross a crowded room to greet him and he the same to me. We agree on how the world works and how things should be no more than 50% of the time. Sometimes he loses his cool and pops off like he did this time.
But I think we have to give him credit for doing a thankless job for 5 years. I can't think of a job I'd want less than chief pilot and especially chief pilot during contract negotiations. He's the first real CP that's sat in that office since Fato was there. He didn't apply for the job: Cheever twisted his arm and enlisted all his old Navy buds to tell him he had to do it. He's not afraid to tell the VP he's full of cr@p and he's not afraid to tell the crew force when he thinks we're getting off course.
Criticize him all you want, but I'd much rather have a guy like him in the front office than:
I think Jack was shootin' from the hip on this one. I just don't think he cleared leather.
But I think we have to give him credit for doing a thankless job for 5 years. I can't think of a job I'd want less than chief pilot and especially chief pilot during contract negotiations. He's the first real CP that's sat in that office since Fato was there. He didn't apply for the job: Cheever twisted his arm and enlisted all his old Navy buds to tell him he had to do it. He's not afraid to tell the VP he's full of cr@p and he's not afraid to tell the crew force when he thinks we're getting off course.
Criticize him all you want, but I'd much rather have a guy like him in the front office than:
- A non-seniority chief pilot
- An egoist who really wanted the job
I think Jack was shootin' from the hip on this one. I just don't think he cleared leather.
10-11-2006, 07:24 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,336
I'll give him a Mulligan
I dunno, I didn't think the Captain thing was too bad. I like a guy with whom you know where you stand. He doesn't bullsh@t around. Though I am not a kid, and he is not my parent, I would hate my parenting skill to be judged only by the time I "lost it" with my kids.
I didn't take it personally because I didn't think I was the target. I think we need tougher skins now and then.
I didn't take it personally because I didn't think I was the target. I think we need tougher skins now and then.
10-11-2006, 07:36 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Laughing_Jakal
I dunno, I didn't think the Captain thing was too bad. I like a guy with whom you know where you stand. He doesn't bullsh@t around. Though I am not a kid, and he is not my parent, I would hate my parenting skill to be judged only by the time I "lost it" with my kids.
I didn't take it personally because I didn't think I was the target. I think we need tougher skins now and then.
I didn't take it personally because I didn't think I was the target. I think we need tougher skins now and then.
10-11-2006, 07:43 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Triple Capt
Posts: 608
World, thanks for saying something to your FO. That's just unsat. And I see alot of Capts who don't say anything to numbnuts or me when we "F" it up -- and we all "F" it up occasionally, through errors of omission or commision.
I was recently on a trip as RFO and the FO messed up all 3 of his decents; planning, speed control, everything. Capt had to intervene and "make recomendations" twice. I asked later how long he'd been in the jet and if he bid RFO. Been in the jet 2+ yrs and avoided RFO. I suggested bidding RFO and watching and maybe LEARNING SOMETHING!
I was recently on a trip as RFO and the FO messed up all 3 of his decents; planning, speed control, everything. Capt had to intervene and "make recomendations" twice. I asked later how long he'd been in the jet and if he bid RFO. Been in the jet 2+ yrs and avoided RFO. I suggested bidding RFO and watching and maybe LEARNING SOMETHING!
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